[Lemmy]

Delwin Delwin:

What a crock. Have we officially become a nation of panderers ? Since when has it become unconstitutional to uphold the law ? I guess we should start handing out bullet proof vests to bank robbers to ensure their safety. This is absolutely disgusting and I hope Harper has the spine to stand up for what is right and appeal this. Has anyone considered what effect legitimizing prostitution will have on the the women of tomorrow ? Here s a good article that gives good reasons to keep prostitution illegal. http://www.honourconsulting.com/pdf/raymond.pdf

When you break the law you give up your constitutional rights. When you are caught you give up your freedom. That's it.

Should we start offering special protections to murderers, rapists, thieves because they are in danger of getting hurt by their victims ? Isn't it unconstitutional not to ? NO, of course not. So what makes prostitution any different ?

What if the law that was broken was unconstitutional in the first place? Moral outrage isn't a sound basis for criminal legislation. We're not talking about murder here, which is clearly not a victimless crime. Holy hyperbole, dude. I would fully support any provisions to curb teenage prostitution, but I share none of your moral outrage when we're talking about consenting adults. History tells us that legislation does not prevent prostitution. Nor does liquor/marijuana prohibition prevent people getting wasted. Nor does adultry prohibition prevent extra-marital affairs. "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." That's true whether I pay for my companion or not.

[Delwin]

Same old story, better source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f ... 663841.stm

Sorry Brnda was your argument that 809 in 2009 is an OK number of human slaves?

[Delwin]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Delwin Delwin:

What a crock. Have we officially become a nation of panderers ? Since when has it become unconstitutional to uphold the law ? I guess we should start handing out bullet proof vests to bank robbers to ensure their safety. This is absolutely disgusting and I hope Harper has the spine to stand up for what is right and appeal this. Has anyone considered what effect legitimizing prostitution will have on the the women of tomorrow ? Here s a good article that gives good reasons to keep prostitution illegal. http://www.honourconsulting.com/pdf/raymond.pdf

When you break the law you give up your constitutional rights. When you are caught you give up your freedom. That's it.

Should we start offering special protections to murderers, rapists, thieves because they are in danger of getting hurt by their victims ? Isn't it unconstitutional not to ? NO, of course not. So what makes prostitution any different ?

What if the law that was broken was unconstitutional in the first place? Moral outrage isn't a sound basis for criminal legislation. We're not talking about murder here, which is clearly not a victimless crime. Holy hyperbole, dude. I would fully support any provisions to curb teenage prostitution, but I share none of your moral outrage when we're talking about consenting adults. History tells us that legislation does not prevent prostitution. Nor does liquor/marijuana prohibition prevent people getting wasted. Nor does adultry prohibition prevent extra-marital affairs. "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." That's true whether I pay for my companion or not.

I could care less about consenting adults, my argument is that relaxing the laws opens the doors for forced prostitution. And history tells us that legalizing something does increase its use.

[Lemmy]

Delwin Delwin:

I could care less about consenting adults, my argument is that relaxing the laws opens the doors for forced prostitution.

Okie dokie. It's too late in the day for me to pedestal an introductory economics lesson on the nature of demand or the application of the Oakes Test. So I'll just call "cheers".

[Brenda]

Of course "abuse is still happening". Duhh. So by legalizing alcohol, people did not get addicted anymore??

Difference is, since they don't have to pick up every visible hooker, they can go deeper and look for the REAL victims, they women that are kept underground. That the police then says "we are seeing so many horror stories" (or whatever the exact wording was) is ONLY because they didn't see them before. Does not mean they weren't there. They were.

[Brenda]

Delwin Delwin:

Same old story, better source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f ... 663841.stm

Sorry Brnda was your argument that 809 in 2009 is an OK number of human slaves?

My argument is that that would not change, whether you legalize prostitution or not. Or at least, it would not change BECAUSE of it.

You make it sound like EVERY prostitute is a slave, and that is not true. There are plenty women who choose that profession, whether to get them through college, or as a life time career. I say to these women, go for it.

When you legalize the jobs of these women, you don't have to spend time raiding them anymore, but you can put that time and money in tracking down those illegal, underage and otherwise NOT willing prostitutes.

[Delwin]

@lemmy

There's no need to go so in depth with it all, there are some people who quite simply choose not to break the law. Make something legal and hey maybe they'll give it a shot. Put it in a fancy storefront with a big flashy sign, hell yeah. Market it properly, and give frequent flyer miles and twice a week. No?

Or are you arguing that the law has absolutely no ability to curb the actions of the public ?

[Brenda]

And why wouldn't they go to a prostitute?

People have a choice. They don't because they don't want to. Or they do, because they want to. That your moral compass does not allow you to, fine. But that does not mean no one should.

It is the oldest profession in the world. Sex is natural. Unless of course, you propose a ban for all un-marital sex.

[martin14]

Delwin Delwin:

Same old story, better source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f ... 663841.stm

Sorry Brnda was your argument that 809 in 2009 is an OK number of human slaves?

There are probably more in Canada.

[Delwin]

Brenda, you are wrong about your facts, look into it,

Raw reality

However, according to some police experts, between 50% and 90% of the prostitutes working in the area have been forced into it, even in officially-licenced brothels and clubs.

Last month, Amsterdam council executive Lodewijk Asscher said the Netherlands often deals with prostitution by turning a blind eye to the 'raw reality'.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... promot.php

Women generally do not choose to become prostitutes, most of them are forced to do it for economic reasons or out of fear. I have never heard a young girls say I want to grow up to be a whore, and I hope I never do.

You might be ok with your countries massive problem, or you just choose to ignore it, but I hope Canada never becomes like the Netherlands.

[EyeBrock]

I'm not so sure too many women choose prositution as a career. All those I have met in the UK and Canada have been addicts of some sort of narcotic or alcohol. Most have been pretty pathetic humans that warrant our pity. They get robbed, beaten, raped and abused. It's a sad life.

These woman are victims but prohibition of prostitution hasn't stopped the demand.

If this makes their lives safer I'm all for it.

[Delwin]

Of course, the safety of these people is what really matters hear. The point is there is no evidence that the legalizing of prostitution has ever made the lives of sex workers any safer.In fact there is every evidence to the contrary. The Netherlands has a vested interest in making us believe that it has because half of their GDP comes from the pimps and the drug dealers.

[Brenda]

I find a 40% gap in an estimate a little suspicious.
This is the website for the union, De Rode Draad (or, in English, The Red Thread)
It is the google translate version
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... md%3Dimvns

Also, quoting one lady from the CDA might not be a good one. We all know that the CDA is against anything that has to do with un marital sex.
Asscher wants to get rid of prostitution all together. He just does not want it to exist, whether legal or illegal.

[Brenda]

$1:

most of them are forced to do it for economic reasons

Yeah, welfare in the Netherlands does not buy you an iPhone either...

[Brenda]

martin14 martin14:

Delwin Delwin:

Same old story, better source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f ... 663841.stm

Sorry Brnda was your argument that 809 in 2009 is an OK number of human slaves?

There are probably more in Canada.

$1:

- According to the RCMP, 800 to 1200 people are trafficked in and through Canada every year.

Did you know that human trafficking was not a crime until 8 years ago? And the law against it was used for the first time in 2008? And that drug traffickers get more time in jail than human traffickers?

http://arpacanada.ca/index.php/issuesre ... in-canada-

http://activehistory.ca/2010/05/bill-c- ... d-present/

So Delwin, when you say you don't want Canada to become anything like the Netherlands, you might want to take your head out of your ass.