[FieryVulpine]

A condo built on a First Nations burial ground? Please tell me I'm not the only one who had this image in mind.

0:

jack-nicholson-the-shining-heres-johnny.jpg [ 25.35 KiB | Viewed 218 times ]

"Here's Johnny!"

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Does respect for the dead only apply if the dead are interred in a clearly defined cemetery?

Yes.

You cant dig a shallow grave, toss a body in it, then claim 100 years from then it is a sacred site.

Erect something permanent or maintain the area so that it is not lost.

So we're back to, "They should treat their dead like us 'civilized folk' do", otherwise their dead deserve no respect.

[Guy_Fawkes]

No they should have treated their dead like many other ancient cultures did, just because they had a culture does not mean it is a great culture or something that should be preserved. Should first nation languages be preserved by making them official languages?

[BeaverFever]

Wow, never a story about non-whites on this site where the ususal suspects don't jump in to start pointing fingers and calling names.

This particular band has always claimed this area as part of their traditional land and has never left the area. It was included in their 1984 land claims submission, which, like many land claims, is just on a slow boat to nowhere since the government can just ignore them.

So what if their cultural tradition was to bury them in a designated spot without individual markers, sounds like Fawkes is just tyring to invent excuses to build condos ontop of dead people. And you know what happens then....didn't you ever see Poltergeist?

[andyt]

No building on stolen Native land! Is it a burial ground or a midden? A midden is a garbage heap. Did they bury their dead at the garbage heap?

[CDN_PATRIOT]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Sure thing OTI. And I'm sure you'd be just fine if they dug up your family's grave to build some shitty condos?

Why is it they care now?

Because big money and corporations are involved.

If only they put that effort and dedication into helping their own people from poverty, addiction and poor housing.

Exactly.



+1 if you had your rep enabled.

-J.

[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

No building on stolen Native land! Is it a burial ground or a midden? A midden is a garbage heap. Did they bury their dead at the garbage heap?

Well it was the Europeans who named it Midden. We know that in those days they didn't distingush when it came to Natives.

[andyt]

I thought midden was an archaeological term, and I would expect archaeologists, even evil European white male ones, to distinguish between that and a burial ground. In the story, the only people claiming it's a burial ground are the Natives. I would pay it more credence if an archaeologist backed them up. I would guess there's no such backing is why the province is allowing this to go ahead.

[BeaverFever]

From a 2007 article:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=4c1de35c-c326-4ca7-84fb-315504ba57ba&k=36011

$1:

Treasure beneath our feet
Vancouver Sun
November 16, 2007

VANCOUVER - An archeological management plan is being negotiated by the provincial government and Musqueam First Nation to protect the site of an ancient native midden and village at the south foot of Granville Street.

The first of its kind in B.C., the deal will apply to any future development of 23 properties on the Great Fraser Midden in Marpole, a 3.5-hectare (8.5-acre) area roughly between Granville and the Arthur Laing Bridge.

A midden is a garbage heap, often rich in artifacts. The area was declared a National Historic Site in 1933 and is estimated to be at least 2,500 years old and possibly as much as 9,000 years old.

Thousands of tools, weapons and carvings of stone and bone were removed from the midden during excavations in the 1890s, including the trappings of a royal burial.

The archeology branch, which is drafting the agreement with the Musqueam, says urban development is the biggest threat to the site and its ancient contents. Vancouver property owners were notified of the negotiations by letter in June.

...

Artfully carved stone bowls and statuettes, "expertly crafted" arrowheads and tools made of stone and bone, and the remains of 100 people were found throughout the site, originally measured by Hill-Tout at about two hectares (4.5 acres). Hill-Tout measured the heap of shell fragments and other detritus at 500 metres in length and 100 metres wide at a depth of five metres in many places.

...

Two astounding finds were recorded in excavations of the site. The first was a two-metre-high pyramid, or cairn, made from river rock and topped with a 20-kg stone statue. Inside the pyramid were human bone fragments packed with orange sand. Its straight-edged square base was aligned perfectly with the points of the compass.

The second find was the skeleton of a male encased in sheets of beaten copper, with a copper crown on his head. The remains of two women with smashed skulls were part of this elaborate grave.

[OnTheIce]

So the question remains, where are the thousands of items recovered?

[BeaverFever]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

No they should have treated their dead like many other ancient cultures did, just because they had a culture does not mean it is a great culture or something that should be preserved. Should first nation languages be preserved by making them official languages?

What an ignorant and bigoted thing to say.

Besides, my last post indicates that they did in fact bury their dead in marked graves and elabourate tombs on site.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

So the question remains, where are the thousands of items recovered?

Holy fuck, they go where artifacts go: different museums, private collections, etc. What does it matter? Jesus!

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

So the question remains, where are the thousands of items recovered?

Holy fuck, they go where artifacts go: different museums, private collections, etc. What does it matter? Jesus!

What does it matter?

It matters as much as these people allowing development on most of this "sacred" land up until a big money developer steps in.

It matters how much they value these artefacts and if they actually know where they went. These are people's bodies and belongings.

Let's face the truth here, Beaver. This has nothing to do with sacred land, this comes down to dollars and cents. If the land was that sacred, acres of it wouldn't already have been developed, so we know the area isn't as important as they'd like is to believe.

So, how much? How much do these Natives want to turn away from an empty site that's already been excavated and mostly sold off?

[andyt]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

From a 2007 article:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=4c1de35c-c326-4ca7-84fb-315504ba57ba&k=36011

$1:

Treasure beneath our feet
Vancouver Sun
November 16, 2007

VANCOUVER - An archeological management plan is being negotiated by the provincial government and Musqueam First Nation to protect the site of an ancient native midden and village at the south foot of Granville Street.

The first of its kind in B.C., the deal will apply to any future development of 23 properties on the Great Fraser Midden in Marpole, a 3.5-hectare (8.5-acre) area roughly between Granville and the Arthur Laing Bridge.

A midden is a garbage heap, often rich in artifacts. The area was declared a National Historic Site in 1933 and is estimated to be at least 2,500 years old and possibly as much as 9,000 years old.

Thousands of tools, weapons and carvings of stone and bone were removed from the midden during excavations in the 1890s, including the trappings of a royal burial.

The archeology branch, which is drafting the agreement with the Musqueam, says urban development is the biggest threat to the site and its ancient contents. Vancouver property owners were notified of the negotiations by letter in June.

...

Artfully carved stone bowls and statuettes, "expertly crafted" arrowheads and tools made of stone and bone, and the remains of 100 people were found throughout the site, originally measured by Hill-Tout at about two hectares (4.5 acres). Hill-Tout measured the heap of shell fragments and other detritus at 500 metres in length and 100 metres wide at a depth of five metres in many places.

...

Two astounding finds were recorded in excavations of the site. The first was a two-metre-high pyramid, or cairn, made from river rock and topped with a 20-kg stone statue. Inside the pyramid were human bone fragments packed with orange sand. Its straight-edged square base was aligned perfectly with the points of the compass.

The second find was the skeleton of a male encased in sheets of beaten copper, with a copper crown on his head. The remains of two women with smashed skulls were part of this elaborate grave.

Great. See, there's a management plan in place, both parties singed off on it, now the Natives want to complain.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Does respect for the dead only apply if the dead are interred in a clearly defined cemetery?

Yes.

So, when the Egyptian Pyramids were raided and their riches and bodies put on display for all to see, that was respect?