[Yogi]

eureka eureka:

The Edmonton Sun, no less! So many strawmen. So many logical fallacies and disconnects.

Interestingly, while enjoying the Great Canadian Pastime of relaxing in Tim Horton's yesterday, I happened on a copy of something I was not familiar with. It was the Toronto Sun. Its editorial was similar but sillier and even more poorly written.

To amuse myself last night I dashed off a 5/600 word response. It is not likely to be published since the Sun editors are only capable of absorbing "byte" sized pieces of information and the paper caters to readers who want no more than that expressed in twitter-like grammar and intelligence.

I was so impressed with the 65,000 job claim over 25 years. That will cover about one fifth of the jobs that are already lost due to the oil sands. It will compensate for a few of the jobs that are going to be lost in the future for the same cause.

The editors of the Sun still hare several years behind on Wind Power. Wind Power is now competitive with coal and rapidly gaining on oil and gas. In a very few years it will be cheaper than any of those.

Solar is not there yet but new technologies for thinner and cheaper panels are making great reductions in those costs.

^ Disregard the author & the publication then, DISCOUNT THE FACTS!


In a few DAYS I'm going to be a multi-millionare, because TODAY I am going to purchase the winning LOTTO MAX ticket!


Stick to the facts of 'what is' rather than wandering off behind all the little farm animals, dreaming about what 'might be, some day. We have a saying OUT WEST; "Tracks make mighty thin soup"!

Now, a bit of back-pedalling on my part. I will admit that in an earlier reply to a post you made about separation, I was a wee bit flip. I have had a good nights sleep, and woke up in a much different train of thought.

WHEN you ( ontario) leave, PLEASE take quebec with you!

[eureka]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

eureka eureka:

Oh dear! So much ignorance in such a little space!

Yes, I'm quite amazed you manage to fit it all in your little brain.

$1:

Wind power does not need gas backup.

You what do you do on those overcast, muggy days when the wind isn't blowing?

$1:

Germany, Denmark are already providing around 20% of their needs from wind power and they do not have gas backup.

Untrue and misleading.

Germany produces approx. 20% of its power from renewables, which include wind, solar, hydro and biomass.

Denmark does generate a large percentage of its total power from wind, but when the wind isn't blowing they import power from neighboring countries.

That is how they get away with no gas backup.

$1:

I could go in to this in great depth and provide you with information from all those credible sources that are not promoting fossil fuels but I don't have time for that.

Translation: I'm running out of crap to fling.

If you had taken your time to read what I write, you would not leap to wrong answers. Try to find fact rather than try to prove someone wrong for no other reason than that you want to.

When the wind is not blowing, it is blowing somewhere else. Always. That is what interconnectedness means. Power comes from elsewhere; from renewable sources. That is also why a mix of renewables is desirable. That is also now being dealt with by improving storage technology. Germany, for instance, is creating considerable storage capacity with old disused coal mines.

Sorry, if I offended you about the amount of Wind Power in Germany. I was thinking of that under development, the thousands of turbines that will be added to the 23,000 plus already in operation. 20% is the target for a couple of years from now.

Germany now has almost 50,000 MW of installed capacity.

[peck420]

eureka eureka:

Germany now has almost 50,000 MW of installed capacity.

Got links?

Because Germany disagrees with you.
http://www.wind-energie.de/sites/default/files/attachments/press-release/2012/jahresbilanz-windenergie-2011-deutscher-markt-waechst-wieder/statistik-jahresbilanz-2011.pdf

On Dec.31, 2011, Germany had an installed wind capacity of 29,075MW.

Germany estimates that they will have a maximum capacity of 45,000MW on shore and 10,000MW off shore at current technology.

[FieryVulpine]

Well, Nameless didn't say whether that capacity was "renewables" or just wind power. I don't blame him for making that oversight, we all know about the damage to his frontal lobe.

[eureka]

I had intended to write almost 30,000. As it is now. That does not change the proportion.

Here is a comparison showing Germany leading the world.

http://climatecrocks.com/2011/04/15/wha ... le-energy/

[andyt]

Wiki says:

$1:

The share of electricity produced from renewable energy in Germany has increased from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to over 20 percent in the first half of 2011.[1] In 2010, investments totaling 26 billion euros were made in Germany’s renewable energies sector. According to official figures, some 370,000 people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector in 2010, especially in small and medium sized companies. This is an increase of around 8 percent compared to 2009 (around 339,500 jobs), and well over twice the number of jobs in 2004 (160,500). About two-thirds of these jobs are attributed to the Renewable Energy Sources Act[2][3] Germany is the world's first major renewable energy economy.[4] In 2010 nearly 17% (more than 100 TWH) of Germany's electricity supply (603 TWH) was produced from renewable energy sources, more than the 2010 contribution of gas-fired power plants.[5]
Renewable electricity in 2010 was 101.7 TWh including wind power 36.5 TWh, biomass and biowaste 33.5 TWh, hydropower 19.7 TWh and photovoltage solar power 12.0 TWh.[6]

[peck420]

Eureka,

That's fine, mistakes happen...mine litter the forums.

As for Germany leading the way, they are for now. Their current maximum limit is substantially lower than many other areas.

Inside North America, in terms of wind power, Canada is leading the way.

Wind Power Capacity in MW/person:
Germany: 0.00036MW/Person (for baseline reference)
Canada: 0.00015MW/Person
USA: 0.00014MW/Person

Now, inside Canada, PEI is leading the way, with better generation than Germany:
PE: 0.00112MW/Person
NB: 0.00039MW/Person
NS: 0.00030MW/Person
AB: 0.00021MW/Person
MB: 0.00019MW/Person
SK: 0.00019MW/Person
ON: 0.00015MW/Person
QC: 0.00012MW/Person
NL: 0.00011MW/Person
BC: 0.00005MW/Person
YT: 0.00002MW/Person
NT & NU - no appreciable data.

It would appear that both Alberta and Ontario have some catching up to do, although one has more catching than the other.

Sources:
Wind Capacity: CANWEA
http://www.canwea.ca/farms/index_e.php

Populations of provinces: StatsCan
http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo02a-eng.htm

[eureka]

Agreed, Peck, but Ontario has huge projects either under way or undergoing environmental assessment.That is what it is about.

I would like to get really into this Wind energy but I do not have time. I am engaged in this problem of climate change in other countries. It is not an obsession but I have reason to know just how bad this is going to be and how soon it will be past the main tipping point.

You would probably be interested to know of one corporation that takes it seriously and finds cost benefit. A Ford plant in the UK is powered by a wind turbine. All its power; and it sees a distinct cost saving from its use.

[peck420]

Every province across Canada has projects planned. If we go by what is planned, and assume that all will reach their goals (unlikely) Alberta and Ontario will breakdown as follows:

Based on both provinces 2015 plans...you would almost think they planned together or with the same agency...oh, the did. (Wind Vision 2025, CanWEA)

2015 MW/Person Wind Capacity (Populations are reference lines from StatsCan)
AB: 0.00177MW/Person (7013MW / 3,969,845 People)
ON: 0.00032MW/Person (4479.2MW / 14,027,550 People)

[eureka]

peck420 peck420:

Every province across Canada has projects planned. If we go by what is planned, and assume that all will reach their goals (unlikely) Alberta and Ontario will breakdown as follows:

Based on both provinces 2015 plans...you would almost think they planned together or with the same agency...oh, the did. (Wind Vision 2025, CanWEA)

2015 MW/Person Wind Capacity (Populations are reference lines from StatsCan)
AB: 0.00177MW/Person (7013MW / 3,969,845 People)
ON: 0.00032MW/Person (4479.2MW / 14,027,550 People)

I don't know just how your figures are derived but Ontario at the end of 2012 had slightly more than double the installed capacity of Alberta Alberta has approximately 450 MW approved or under construction; Ontario 1250. Five years ago, Alberta led.

Quebec now is catching up to Alberta.

Alberta has quite a lot and great potential but it now seems to be dragging its feet after an early start.

Unless there has been something recently that I missed, Alberta and Saskatchewan are the only provinces without an emissions reduction plan. That bears on the intentions for wind.

When a new coal plant is approved just in time to avoid regulatory problems, it makes one wonder at the actual intent of the government wrt wind power. Ontario must develop that power since the power sources that are being phased out have to be replaced and they can only be replaced with renewables. That means chiefly wind at the moment, though demand will be placed on existing nuclear potential as a bridge.

[Yogi]

eureka eureka:

peck420 peck420:

Every province across Canada has projects planned. If we go by what is planned, and assume that all will reach their goals (unlikely) Alberta and Ontario will breakdown as follows:

Based on both provinces 2015 plans...you would almost think they planned together or with the same agency...oh, the did. (Wind Vision 2025, CanWEA)

2015 MW/Person Wind Capacity (Populations are reference lines from StatsCan)
AB: 0.00177MW/Person (7013MW / 3,969,845 People)
ON: 0.00032MW/Person (4479.2MW / 14,027,550 People)

I don't know just how your figures are derived but Ontario at the end of 2012 had slightly more than double the installed capacity of Alberta Alberta has approximately 450 MW approved or under construction; Ontario 1250. Five years ago, Alberta led.

Quebec now is catching up to Alberta.

Alberta has quite a lot and great potential but it now seems to be dragging its feet after an early start.

Unless there has been something recently that I missed, Alberta and Saskatchewan are the only provinces without an emissions reduction plan. That bears on the intentions for wind.

When a new coal plant is approved just in time to avoid regulatory problems, it makes one wonder at the actual intent of the government wrt wind power. Ontario must develop that power since the power sources that are being phased out have to be replaced and they can only be replaced with renewables. That means chiefly wind at the moment, though demand will be placed on existing nuclear potential as a bridge.

I think I see YOUR problem!

[ShepherdsDog]

You missed your calling as a mental health specialist.

[Yogi]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

You missed your calling as a mental health specialist.

I used to think so too, Shep, but i could never get the female patients onto the couch so I gave up on that line of work!

[ShepherdsDog]

Didn't the line,"Does this rag smell funny to you?", work effectively?

[Yogi]

Never got that far. Soon as I pulled out the bracelets...