[EyeBrock]

Personally, on the 'kill-ratio' I'm looking at this from a military point of view.

To argue whether we should be there, fighting the Taliban is really a moot point. Parliament, rightly or wrongly, sent the Army into combat.

We are there and we are fighting the Taliban.

As far as I can see it's a choice between the Taliban death toll or the Canadian Army death toll.
Making sure our guys kill as many of their guys in battle is the aim of combat. I’m not talking about ‘final victory’ or ‘mission accomplished’ and all the other bollocks politicians talk about.

The comment about the kill ratio as a justification was off base.

To me it looked like flossy seemed to prefer a more 'equal' kill-ratio.

Mix that in with his anti-war signature and I’m getting that he’d rather see our guys killed than the Taliban.

The anti-war crowd have always been an interesting sort to me. None of them would ever pick up a rifle in defence of their country yet they enjoy the rights protected by our military.

I’m used to hearing the sheep bleat. I’m also used to hearing them praise our enemies over our own soldiers.

It’s just one of the weird things about a democracy.


War is the continuation of politics by other means. It’s as true today as it was in the 19th century.

Killing the enemy is the business of our army in Afghanistan. Apparently that has come as a bit of a shock to the sheep.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The anti-war crowd have always been an interesting sort to me. None of them would ever pick up a rifle in defence of their country yet they enjoy the rights protected by our military.

Total bullshit. What rights have been protected by invading Iraq? Making a mess out of Astan? There weren't many anti-war protesters during the initial invasion of Astan to get Bin Laden. The protests started with the bullshit invasion of Iraq.

[mentalfloss]

No, Brock I was just saying that having a huge military vs. the puny bad guys, doesn't justify fighting the puny bad guys. It's not a bulletin point for going to any war.

That does not mean I am against war altogether. It is always the utmost, last resort.

[andyt]

mentalfloss mentalfloss:

No, Brock I was just saying that having a huge military vs. the puny bad guys, doesn't justify fighting the puny bad guys. It's not a bulletin point for going to any war.

I does, kinda. What's the point of having a huge military if you don't use it once in a while? If you don't use up those arms and buy new ones, the arms manufacturers won't be donating to your party anymore. But going up against somebody that can give you a real fight is not a good idea, you could lose more than a few expendable lives.

or as Country Joe said:

Come on Wall Street, don't be slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of its trade,
But just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.


Or the complete song:

Well, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Come on Wall Street, don't be slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of its trade,
But just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Now you can go out and get those reds
'Cause the only good commie is the one that's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, and don't hesitate
To send your sons off before it's too late.
And you can be the first ones in your block
To have your boy come home in a box.

And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

[tritium]

Islam is more a religious ideology than a religion as most Americans interpret the meaning of religion. To understand this difference, please watch:

[The_Doctor]

I counter your video argument with this:



http://www.whyislam.org/FAQ/tabid/165/Default.aspx

I've also lived in Turkey for 3 years and also I had a roommate who was Muslim for 2 years.

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The anti-war crowd have always been an interesting sort to me. None of them would ever pick up a rifle in defence of their country yet they enjoy the rights protected by our military.

Total bullshit. What rights have been protected by invading Iraq? Making a mess out of Astan? There weren't many anti-war protesters during the initial invasion of Astan to get Bin Laden. The protests started with the bullshit invasion of Iraq.

You don't read history andy? Or does your view of the world only go back a few years?

And I'm not talking about Iraq or Vietnam. Canada wasn't in either war in case you hadn't noticed.

[andyt]

tritium tritium:

Islam is more a religious ideology than a religion as most Americans interpret the meaning of religion.

Bullshit of the year award.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The anti-war crowd have always been an interesting sort to me. None of them would ever pick up a rifle in defence of their country yet they enjoy the rights protected by our military.

Total bullshit. What rights have been protected by invading Iraq? Making a mess out of Astan? There weren't many anti-war protesters during the initial invasion of Astan to get Bin Laden. The protests started with the bullshit invasion of Iraq.

You don't read history andy? Or does your view of the world only go back a few years?

And I'm not talking about Iraq or Vietnam. Canada wasn't in either war in case you hadn't noticed.

You want to bring up WW2? WTF - how big was the anti-war crowd in those days? And those that were conscientious objectors stood by their principles and suffered for them. I respect them.

I really don't understand how this is relevant to the topic?

[Dayseed]

If we're straying from the topic from the moment, can't we all just agree that Soundgarden's Mind Riot is a wonderful precursor to Burden In My Hand?

[DerbyX]

Dayseed Dayseed:

If we're straying from the topic from the moment, can't we all just agree that Soundgarden's Mind Riot is a wonderful precursor to Burden In My Hand?

Have you seen them in concert? I saw them at Molson Park back in the summer of 94 with NIN & Marilyn Manson. Awesome.

[Khar]

$1:

You want to bring up WW2? WTF - how big was the anti-war crowd in those days?

Big, man. The entire country was reluctant to enter World War 2, after the events of World War 1 and the direction of public sentiment afterwards. Keep in mind the long period of appeasement and isolationism present before the Second World War began. Men such as Churchill were largely viewed as warmongers before the war spread across Europe and then around the World, and a similar sentiment was shared here -- Canada was the last Dominion to enter the war, if my memory serves, even though we were the oldest, and our initial deployment was modest given 20 years of paying little attention to the military between wars which had lead to it's strength and funding decaying over time. All in all, Canada entered the Second World War with a very different viewpoint, level of morale and such than it did with the First World War.

Indeed, the Thirties were a period of great growth for the anti-war movement, with many notable groups advocating anti-war stances, such as the Oxford Union. Concerns about war profiteering, claims of companies using war to boost business, the idea of sending "the poor off to fight" for the comforts of others, and so on, were part of the range of reasons which grew in volume as time went on. Given the economic conditions at the time with general unrest about the direction said economies were taken, it is no surprise that companies and business giants took part of the blame in many nations. Like current wars, there was a decent amount of previous military personnel speaking out against it. Hence, while I know very little about the actual details of the time (and make no claim to know much more than the most basic facts), I do remember that there was a great deal of political pressure, advocacy groups, and various other forms of anti-war present leading up to and during the beginning of the Second World War.

I'm not sure if this was the war EyeBrock is referring to, but he is correct that anti-war sentiments were strong at the time, and indeed played a major role in how the beginnings of the issues at the time played out. I'm afraid I've been forced to evoke Godwin's Law at the end, there, but since it was on World War 2, it was inevitable I'd have to get there eventually.

I don't know how relevant it is to the overall topic (not trying to take a side, either), but since this was said I figured I'd just toss the facts out there. Apologies if I've detracted from the topic.

[Chumley]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Dayseed Dayseed:

If we're straying from the topic from the moment, can't we all just agree that Soundgarden's Mind Riot is a wonderful precursor to Burden In My Hand?

Have you seen them in concert? I saw them at Molson Park back in the summer of 94 with NIN & Marilyn Manson. Awesome.

Holy shit Derb, I was at that concert

[DerbyX]

Chumley Chumley:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Dayseed Dayseed:

If we're straying from the topic from the moment, can't we all just agree that Soundgarden's Mind Riot is a wonderful precursor to Burden In My Hand?

Have you seen them in concert? I saw them at Molson Park back in the summer of 94 with NIN & Marilyn Manson. Awesome.

Holy shit Derb, I was at that concert

Fricking amazing. Are you the guy who lost a grey ball cap crowd surfing? I had that cap for 2 years. Thanks.

[Chumley]

Lol, no but it might have been my buddies though
We were absolutely blitzed when we went in the gate, didn't think they were going to let us in.
Spent the whole concert in the pit, sweated myself sober by the end.