[PENATRATOR]

romanP romanP:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

romanP romanP:

Absolutely not. Hitler inarguably had to be stopped, if we were to preserve any real sense of humanity for the entire human race. There is no modern-day equivelant of Hitler, though.

The only countries building new weapons are either the same ones that fought the second world war which are now largely at peace with one another, regions where there are border clashes such as with Pakistan, Sri Lanka and India, or countries that are attempting to build nuclear weapons because they are run by a spoiled brat who can't tell the differnece between a Nintendo controller and a button that kills everyone. The rest are fighting civil wars and localised skirmishes, and the only arms they have are leftovers from the Cold War that Russia sold to them for a discount.

Well he was stopped with violence, something you claim a few pages back basically solves nothing. Can't have it both ways.

No, you've misunderstood. I said that the ideas of war and terrorism will not be ended with violence. You cannot solve a problem by repeating the actions that caused the problem in the first place.

So you advocate negotiating with the Taliban? Take their shit, and then ask them to play nice and we will concede whatever they want, and not kick their ass?

You are right man, I don't understand.

[romanP]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

romanP romanP:

No, you've misunderstood. I said that the ideas of war and terrorism will not be ended with violence. You cannot solve a problem by repeating the actions that caused the problem in the first place.

So you advocate negotiating with the Taliban? Take their shit, and then ask them to play nice and we will concede whatever they want, and not kick their ass?

You are right man, I don't understand.

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

[Bodah]

romanP romanP:

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

Have any soloutions ? Or you just feel like being philosophical today.

[Canadian_Mind]

Biblesmasher Biblesmasher:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

you wont be seeing any terrorist attacks that claim lives into the thousands any time in the near future.

And you wouldn't have seen that before, had the guys in charge been doing their jobs and paying attention in the first place. Don't kid yourself, getting 100s of thousands of people killed...accomplished...well getting 100s of thousands of people killed. And making probably an equal amount of people murderously enraged from having lost children etc. Meanwhile Osama laughs and envisions his virgins.

Maybe what happened did happen ebcause the idiots up top didn't have a clue whats oing on. Regardless, there was an intent to attack, and where there is intent there will always be those who try. Better to stop them from being able to try then catching them in the act.

romanP romanP:

No, you've misunderstood. I said that the ideas of war and terrorism will not be ended with violence. You cannot solve a problem by repeating the actions that caused the problem in the first place.

The won be ended with war and violence, but they can be negated by it. Pulling out now will only allow the seeds spawn to regrown and manifest themselves into a force capable of hitting us again. better the war and violence be in their backyard than ours.

Here is an analogy: 10-15 years ago (when I was kid), when encountering a bear, wolf, or wildcat, children were taught to curl up in a ball and play dead. This was changed to what we have today where kids are taught to look as big, mean, and agressive as possible, to the point of actually engaging the animals in conlict by throwing rocks and lunging at it with large sticks.

This change came about because of a few isolated incidents (and the study's taken to prove it) where when encountered the carnivorous animals proceeded to attack the kids playing dead anyways with the intent of eating them. Playing dead leaves you defenseless, while being big mean and aggressive will hopefully scare the thing of without hurting you.

By not engaging the terrorists and not keeping the war on their homefront, we will enevitably see them attack on and within our borders.

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

So you advocate negotiating with the Taliban? Take their shit, and then ask them to play nice and we will concede whatever they want, and not kick their ass?

You are right man, I don't understand.

romanP romanP:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

romanP romanP:

No, you've misunderstood. I said that the ideas of war and terrorism will not be ended with violence. You cannot solve a problem by repeating the actions that caused the problem in the first place.

So you advocate negotiating with the Taliban? Take their shit, and then ask them to play nice and we will concede whatever they want, and not kick their ass?

You are right man, I don't understand.

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

I personally think war and violence is built into our nature, and that it has been the primary force steering our evolution. You only need to be so intelligent and so dexterious to hunt animals for food, but warring amongst ourselves and our sister-species (such as neanderthals) is likely one of the things that directed us to become so intelligent. If you can develop better tools, better tactics, and have a better physical capability than your enemy, you will win.

Look at us growing up during childhood. So many childhood games are based on ousting one another, everything from Red Rover, tag, marco-polo, and playing chicken on the monkey bars to sports competition drives us to teach ourselves and develop better ways to defeat eachother. Such childhood games instill skills such as stealth, observation, speed, agility, dexterity, reaction time, use of force, etc.

While thse skills could be attributed to us being hunters (and rightfully so), they can also be attributed to warfare, and the inter-competition and desire to be better than the next guy rienforces this.

[romanP]

Bodah Bodah:

romanP romanP:

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

Have any soloutions ? Or you just feel like being philosophical today.

The solution is for all of us to renounce violence. But that isn't going to happen within our lifetime or the lifetime of many generations after us.

I try to be philosophical every day.

[Gunnair]

romanP romanP:

Bodah Bodah:

romanP romanP:

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

Have any soloutions ? Or you just feel like being philosophical today.

The solution is for all of us to renounce violence. But that isn't going to happen within our lifetime or the lifetime of many generations after us.

I try to be philosophical every day.

A fascinating philosophy of forum agression.

Yes, peace in our time.

[ShepherdsDog]

shut your cake hole, or you'll get a slap upside your head!

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

shut your cake hole, or you'll get slap upside your head!

Oh yeah...

[romanP]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

romanP romanP:

No, you've misunderstood. I said that the ideas of war and terrorism will not be ended with violence. You cannot solve a problem by repeating the actions that caused the problem in the first place.

The won be ended with war and violence, but they can be negated by it. Pulling out now will only allow the seeds spawn to regrown and manifest themselves into a force capable of hitting us again. better the war and violence be in their backyard than ours.

Were you drunk when you wrote this? The first line and a half are total gibberish.

And whose backyard are you talking about? Just last week, an abortion doctor was murdered on the steps of his church. Do you want to send in the army to stop the lone, random shooter that will kill without warning?
Terrorists aren't just Islamists, they're anyone. Your next door neighbour could be planning to blow up the post office, and you wouldn't know about it until it happens.

Terrorism isn't a concrete thing you can just blast away at with guns and bombs and hope that eventually it'll disappear. That just repeats the problem and ensures that it continues to exist. Even if there was some superweapon that could kill every last violent extremist group in the world, terrorism would still exist.

It's no different from thinking that crime will go away if you just keep making things illegal. There will always be crime, no matter how hard anyone tries to reduce it.

$1:

This change came about because of a few isolated incidents (and the study's taken to prove it) where when encountered the carnivorous animals proceeded to attack the kids playing dead anyways with the intent of eating them. Playing dead leaves you defenseless, while being big mean and aggressive will hopefully scare the thing of without hurting you.

Sure, that works really well against bears. People are not bears, though. For all of the death we've visited upon the Taliban over the past eight years, have they shown any signs of giving up? Seems to me we've got more Canadians coming home dead lately than at any other point since we invaded Afghanistan.

Whichever politician said that military strategy alone is not going to win this war was right.

$1:

By not engaging the terrorists and not keeping the war on their homefront, we will enevitably see them attack on and within our borders.

Then why haven't we invaded Saudi Arabia, where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from, if that's what we're worried about?

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

romanP romanP:

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

I personally think war and violence is built into our nature, and that it has been the primary force steering our evolution.

Okay. Good. So, given this information, do you think that more warfare is going to end warfare?

Remember: the war to end all wars was followed by an even bigger war.

[PENATRATOR]

You have rambled for several pages about terrorism, stating this current world threat is unlike the Germans 70 years ago, to a certain point I agree. However, invading Saudi Arabia as you mention, makes no sense. Maybe the highjackers were born there, however, the country and government does not sponsor or permit terrorism to go on within it's borders, the Taliban regime of Afghanistan did, one of the reasons the extremists from the MUSLIM world went there to train.

*The fact that you have to resort to suggesting other posters may be "drunk" due to typos shows you are grasping at straws now. Pretty petty

[romanP]

$1:

*The fact that you have to resort to suggesting other posters may be "drunk" due to typos shows you are grasping at straws now. Pretty petty

What he wrote did not make any sense in English. If you can translate what he wrote in the block of text I was referring to into something that makes sense, I will buy you a beer if you are ever in Ottawa.

[PENATRATOR]

The won be ended with war and violence, but they can be negated by it. Pulling out now will only allow the seeds spawn to regrown and manifest themselves into a force capable of hitting us again. better the war and violence be in their backyard than ours.

I am thinking the first two words are supposed to be "THEY and WON'T"

Pretty straight forward to me.

His last 11 words are exactly what I implied earlier in this forum which you were quick to mock.

[Canadian_Mind]

My apologies for the typo's.

romanP romanP:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

The won be ended with war and violence, but they can be negated by it. Pulling out now will only allow the seeds spawn to regrown and manifest themselves into a force capable of hitting us again. better the war and violence be in their backyard than ours.

Were you drunk when you wrote this? The first line and a half are total gibberish.

And whose backyard are you talking about? Just last week, an abortion doctor was murdered on the steps of his church. Do you want to send in the army to stop the lone, random shooter that will kill without warning?
Terrorists aren't just Islamists, they're anyone. Your next door neighbour could be planning to blow up the post office, and you wouldn't know about it until it happens.

Terrorism isn't a concrete thing you can just blast away at with guns and bombs and hope that eventually it'll disappear. That just repeats the problem and ensures that it continues to exist. Even if there was some superweapon that could kill every last violent extremist group in the world, terrorism would still exist.

It's no different from thinking that crime will go away if you just keep making things illegal. There will always be crime, no matter how hard anyone tries to reduce it.

The terrorists backyard. Statistically damn near ALL terrorist attacks within the last decade were conducted by organisations that were based in and/or funded by organisations and governments in the middle east. And pretty much all the attackers were muslim immigrants or muslim visitors from the middle east. So by waging war in the middle east we are disrupting the supply lines for outside organisations to be funded and supported from within the middle east, and preventing organisations within the middle east from projecting force outwards.

And what the hell does the murder of a domestic abortion doctor have to do with anything? Thats a domestic problem, called murder, and it happens hundreds if not thousands fo times every day in Canada and the US. A single murder might be a hate crime, but it isn't a terrorist attack. Crashing a plane into a 110 story building is a terrorist attack, not a gunshot.

My next door neighbour could be planning on blowin up a post office, but I guaruntee you someone, somewhere, has an eye on the purchase nd import of bomb-making materials, and if anythign at all seems out of place, the guy is put under 24/7 surveillance. if he does anythign more suspicious, eventually he'll be stopped. This has happend numerous times in NA since 9/11, including the 13 idiots who were arrested in Toronto 2 or 3 years ago.

As for your last points, you are right. More war wont stop people from wanting to commit a terrorist attack, but it does disrupt their ability to carry out the attacks they might want to do.

romanP romanP:

$1:

This change came about because of a few isolated incidents (and the study's taken to prove it) where when encountered the carnivorous animals proceeded to attack the kids playing dead anyways with the intent of eating them. Playing dead leaves you defenseless, while being big mean and aggressive will hopefully scare the thing of without hurting you.

Sure, that works really well against bears. People are not bears, though. For all of the death we've visited upon the Taliban over the past eight years, have they shown any signs of giving up? Seems to me we've got more Canadians coming home dead lately than at any other point since we invaded Afghanistan.

Whichever politician said that military strategy alone is not going to win this war was right.

it's an analogy, not a direct comparison.

Talk to guys who have been over there, we are making progress. The casualty rate is actually getting lower. The same number of bodies are coming home this year as in 2008 and 2007. It's usually around 30 by the time the year ends. Just incase you don't know what a casualty rate is, it is the percentage of people getting hurt or killed, not total number.

As for your comment about the military strategy along not winning this war, it wont. That is why there is plenty more than just military strategy. The majority of the battlegroup is dedicated to protecting the provincial reconstruction team, which consists of people trying to organise the creation of infastructure in Kandahar province, train the Afghan military and police, etc. Thousands of Civilians, police, and military personnel are involved in the effort, not including the 2000 military members in the battlegroup.

Just because the media doesn't report it doen't mean it isn't happening. Reporting about another 12 wells drilled or a school built or 20km of highway paved in a week doesn't have the same shock value as reporting that someone died or that the terrorists are "striking back." It's shitty, biased reporting aimed and producing dollars for the media companies, not accurately report whats going on.

romanP romanP:

$1:

By not engaging the terrorists and not keeping the war on their homefront, we will enevitably see them attack on and within our borders.

Then why haven't we invaded Saudi Arabia, where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from, if that's what we're worried about?

I'm not a politician, but i'd venture to guess that it is because the organisations that supported the most recent mass attacks were based out of Afghanistan. Osama has been kicked out of S.A. for decades now. What good would it do to attack them? The saudi royal family is probably the best protection we have against terror over there, because they make so much money from us. It isn't in their best interest for us to be attacked. better that it stays that way.

romanP romanP:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

romanP romanP:

For all of the wars in the world, for whatever reason, since apes fought rival families for mates, is there less war in the world today? Or is war still a large and ongoing part of human existence?

I personally think war and violence is built into our nature, and that it has been the primary force steering our evolution.

Okay. Good. So, given this information, do you think that more warfare is going to end warfare?

Remember: the war to end all wars was followed by an even bigger war.

The war that will end all wars will lead to the destruction of the human race. Because even if WWIII broke out and the western world was the only thing left alive, our petty disagreements would eventually grow into all out hatred and more violence.