[hurley_108]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

This thread is so far removed from the base issue.

I'd say it's pretty darn close to it still, considering how long it's gone on, and how far some can get on this board....

[DrJones]

This man isn't evil. He's SICK. He needs help. I understand the fear that he will re-offend but that can be addressed through medication and a psychiatric hospital. Of course he'll be re-evaluated every year. If they feel he's cured or safe to release he can be released on conditions that include monitoring and insistence on the use of medication (at least you can do that in Ontario.) If he violates those conditions he can be sent back to a secure psychiatric facility.

Obviously the "safe" thing to do is keep him in prison forever. But how is that fair or humane? This is not like a rational sane person choosing to kill. This is something totally different. I am sure if I knew the victim I'd be upset too - indeed, I find the whole thing very disturbing.

But we have to rise above the emotion and view this objectively.

[Akhenaten]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

This thread is so far removed from the base issue.

I'd say it's pretty darn close to it still, considering how long it's gone on, and how far some can get on this board....

IMO, the moment it became a 'justice' issue it started down the wrong road. Now it's about 1984 and the death penalty.

One doesn't need to examine the death penalty, individual rights vs rights of the state etc - a huge debate on it's own -- to simply and calmly examine the process we have currently in place of determining who is a mental health risk and who isn't and what to do in each case.




K.I.S.S.
Akh

[RUEZ]

DrJones DrJones:

I understand the fear that he will re-offend but that can be addressed through medication and a psychiatric hospital.

Just like the first time?

[llama66]

You can't cure Schizophrenia, only treat it in attempt to moderate the symptoms. and the treatment is pills, going off the pills obviously increases the risk of a psychotic episode, and can/will re-offend. I'd rather that not be on my conscience. He may not be criminally responsible, but a young man still died in a most brutal manner by his hand.
and Life is never Fair.

[hurley_108]

RUEZ RUEZ:

DrJones DrJones:

I understand the fear that he will re-offend but that can be addressed through medication and a psychiatric hospital.

Just like the first time?

This is the second time he decapitated and cannibalized someone?

[Akhenaten]

RUEZ RUEZ:

DrJones DrJones:

I understand the fear that he will re-offend but that can be addressed through medication and a psychiatric hospital.

Just like the first time?

This is the basic paradox, imo. An individual mentally capable of making decisions on their own can indeed refuse treatment -- but what if the treatment in question is what keeps this person mentally competent to make that decision?




Akh

[llama66]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

This thread is so far removed from the base issue.

I'd say it's pretty darn close to it still, considering how long it's gone on, and how far some can get on this board....

IMO, the moment it became a 'justice' issue it started down the wrong road. Now it's about 1984 and the death penalty.

One doesn't need to examine the death penalty, individual rights vs rights of the state etc - a huge debate on it's own -- to simply and calmly examine the process we have currently in place of determining who is a mental health risk and who isn't and what to do in each case.




K.I.S.S.
Akh

this is what is call an organic discussion. and how can you discuss the crime without discussing the system? or the punishment?

[Akhenaten]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

RUEZ RUEZ:

DrJones DrJones:

I understand the fear that he will re-offend but that can be addressed through medication and a psychiatric hospital.

Just like the first time?

This is the second time he decapitated and cannibalized someone?

Of course not. Where would you get that idea? The first time he was deemed not to be a threat to himself or others of course.




Akh

[mtbr]

RUEZ RUEZ:

This man should never walk the street again. I don't care if it's in a jail or a psychiatric facility. He needs to pay for taking that young mans life.

I just heard on the radio that he will be assessed annually and considered for release.

Incredible! what a fucked up justice system.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

this is what is call an organic discussion. and how can you discuss the crime without discussing the system?

Apparently it's not a crime, remember? Besides I don't suggest not discussing the system, but rather keeping the discussion focused on the part of the system that failed. One could argue this is a problem with police response times too, but that's not how we got to this situation.

Fair?
Ahk

[RUEZ]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

RUEZ RUEZ:

DrJones DrJones:

I understand the fear that he will re-offend but that can be addressed through medication and a psychiatric hospital.

Just like the first time?

This is the second time he decapitated and cannibalized someone?

Now who's being obtuse?

[llama66]

technically not, there needs to be the "Actus reus" (Guilty Action) and the "Mens rea" (Guilty Mind) for there to be a crime. so since the "Mens rea" requirement was not met, no crime was committed (I want to point out I disagree with this.)

but to understand what has failed, we must know the entire system, you can't narrow in one one part and ignore all the others.

[SigPig]

[Akhenaten]

$1:

but to understand what has failed, we must know the entire system, you can't narrow in one one part and ignore all the others.

I agree. On the other hand we can't start examining every possible connection within an inherently imperfect world can we? We'd just be chasing our tails then.

So what failed? IMO the inital assessment that Mr.Li was not a danger to himself or others is a definate failure and a good place to start. That's pretty simple.

- The medication didnt fail. It works. Nearly 100% to my understanding.
- Mr.Li is 'not responsible', so he didn't fail when he stopped taking his meds - besides that's his inherent right, correct?
-The justice system didnt fail because they (i assume) correctly established he cannot be held criminally resposible.

So?

We're left with the initial assessment of mr.Li's mental health imo.

EDIT: This might change everythign though...
post1438122#p1438122

Akh