[Scape]

But you are rearranging chairs on the titanic at that point Bart, you are not addressing root cause.

[BartSimpson]

Scape Scape:

But you are rearranging chairs on the titanic at that point Bart, you are not addressing root cause.

I am. I'm saying that as well-meaning as the CRA was it needs to be repealed and the banks need to return to giving out loans based on people qualifying with sound credit scores and with loan-to-values of 90% or less.

[OPP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OPP OPP:

Let me put this simply.

I expect nothing more than that from you, still, you periodically amaze me with what you can accomplish with a third grade education.

Yeah, I get around ok, not being a native english speaker and all. You seem to forget that at times.

[BartSimpson]

OPP OPP:

Yeah, I get around ok, not being a native english speaker and all. You seem to forget that at times.

Jag ska ge dig kredit för att försöka.

[PluggyRug]

OPP OPP:

Let me put this simply.. Nationalism, intolerance, racism = Right-wing triats. Solidarity, equality, tolerance = Left-wing traits.

May I take exception to that conception. The obvious read.....Intelligent common sense = right wing traits, genetic flaws = left wing traits.

[Proculation]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Scape Scape:

But you are rearranging chairs on the titanic at that point Bart, you are not addressing root cause.

I am. I'm saying that as well-meaning as the CRA was it needs to be repealed and the banks need to return to giving out loans based on people qualifying with sound credit scores and with loan-to-values of 90% or less.

We MAY know how the CRA and other measures like that helped to create the bubble. One thing is clear tho: it sure didn't help !

All the ingredients were there: low interest rates + bias in the market created by those acts. Here, we have to understand that interest rates is the cost to borrow money you do not have. That cost is based on risk. The Fed lending money is theorically risk-free (so it should be around the inflation rate of 2%). Right now, they are PAYING banks (as they were in the beginning of the 2000s) to lend money. That is scary since that help create the bubble in the first place.

[OPP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Scape Scape:

The securitization is what cause the mortgage meltdown CRA was a sideshow. When you bundle everything triple AAA it had the effect of luring people into house they could never afford. When these sales are set up and done in a matter of weeks for sales that are intended to be paid over a term of decades oversight got stripped away. When these bundles got sold off they got bundled with junk and in the end that made everything worthless.

I don't dispute that. As I said, pricks on Wall Street took advantage of a well-meaning law that had some fatal flaws in it.

That's how banks and corporations work. They're like a snake starting to eat at itself for a short term profit. Trying to satisfy an unquenchable thirst of profit from shareholders and stockholders while giving out bonuses to themselfs. Without regulations, capitalism is anarchy.

[Proculation]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

OPP OPP:

Let me put this simply.. Nationalism, intolerance, racism = Right-wing triats. Solidarity, equality, tolerance = Left-wing traits.

May I take exception to that conception. The obvious read.....Intelligent common sense = right wing traits, genetic flaws = left wing traits.

It's not so simple. We are not in 1800s France anymore when the terms were invented. Politics should now be made in a x,y plan since you can be "liberal" socially and "conservative" fiscally.

[Proculation]

OPP OPP:

Without regulations, capitalism is anarchy.

Wow, we agree here

Now, the only regulations needed here is to enforce private rights and punish those who do not go by the free market rules.

[OPP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OPP OPP:

Yeah, I get around ok, not being a native english speaker and all. You seem to forget that at times.

Jag ska ge dig kredit för att försöka.

Apology accepted

[romanP]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Uh, no. Companies lend to people with bad credit all the time. Payday lenders. Used car sellers. Credit card companies. They just charge people with bad credit higher and higher fees and interest.

There are some loan products out there that are just inherantly bad. 50 year mortgages. Reverse amortization mortgages. They tried some such things here for a couple years until a few months ago the government said no more.

Companies will sell whatever products they are allowed to whether or not its a good idea.

Major banks do not lend out trillions of dollars at high risk unless another power intervenes. Capitalism is self-regulating. Government is not.

If capitalism is self-regulating, why doesn't it control itself better? This economic downturn should not be happening, by your logic. I should not be laid off and worrying about whether I'll be able to pay rent in a couple of months when my savings and EI run out while I scramble to look for another job.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

romanP romanP:

Don't play stupid, Bart. If you had the power to do so, it's no secret that you would round up Muslims and have them all killed, just as Hitler rounded up and killed and many Jews as he could.

Not all of them. Just the ones who won't swear off world conquest and Sharia Law.

Which, according to many posts you've written, is all of them.

[Axeman]

Proculation Proculation:

I agree with that. The only job of the government should be to regulate economy by ENFORCING free market and private rights.

That's one Libertarian philosophy, but there are other "flavours" of it. I prefer Libertarian Socialism where government intervention extends to credit markets and universal social interests such as health care, education, environmental protection and a few other instances where it benefits everyone, by economies of scale, to pool our resources.

Proculation Proculation:

Frauds are not about free market, IMO. It's stealing.

Exactly.

[Axeman]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

My bad. I meant "capitalism regulates itself such that people don't lend one another large amounts of money that they may not get back." I thought it was a bit long to say though. Strong law enforcement, particularly with regards to private property rights is absolutely necessary.

Well, okay, but again, Friedman, Hayek and the staunchest Libertarians rarely suggest that credit markets should be untethered. Control of the monetary system is central to Libertarianism, Supply-side economics, and all things held holy by Liberal (liberal in the classic sense of the word, from the root word "Liberty") thinkers.

[Proculation]

romanP romanP:

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Uh, no. Companies lend to people with bad credit all the time. Payday lenders. Used car sellers. Credit card companies. They just charge people with bad credit higher and higher fees and interest.

There are some loan products out there that are just inherantly bad. 50 year mortgages. Reverse amortization mortgages. They tried some such things here for a couple years until a few months ago the government said no more.

Companies will sell whatever products they are allowed to whether or not its a good idea.

Major banks do not lend out trillions of dollars at high risk unless another power intervenes. Capitalism is self-regulating. Government is not.

If capitalism is self-regulating, why doesn't it control itself better? This economic downturn should not be happening, by your logic. I should not be laid off and worrying about whether I'll be able to pay rent in a couple of months when my savings and EI run out while I scramble to look for another job.

Not true. There will always be economic cycles. However, the freer the market, the least the downturns will be. It also means that the least the booms will be. The problem is that the politicians love economic booms. When it goes down to a more normal level, it's not so more fun.