[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Not your government. As I said before, they were too slow to act, but the people in Kyiv seem to want to keep Ukraine together, but maybe aren't the most skilful at it. And face having to choose among unpleasant options either way.

Hard to read what you posted, but if I read it right, some officials released pro-Russian protesters. No doubt there are people in positions of authority who sympathize with the Russian side. As I've said before, the pro-russian side seems to be a lot more numerous than some people in the west want to believe. Some officials being bribed is of course also a possibility.

It looks grim. Don't see things returning to the way they were. I think Ukraine will split between East and West, looks like the south might go to Russia as well.

Russia is now officially in recession. The sanctions are starting to bite. But Putin has his career riding on winning this, maybe even his life. He won't give up easily. Quite a possibility that if the West is resolute and enforces strict sanctions, we could see civil unrest spread to Russia. (Putin is part is doing this because he got scared by the protests against him last election). And then look out. Ukraine writ large with nukes. Maybe it's one reason the West hasn't been harsher with him, the alternative to Putin is too awful to think about. Sorta like Syria.

I think for sure the West has basically written off the East - ie Putin can take it without too many consequences from the West. Don't know about the south. But what does that leave West Ukraine? What resources (of all kinds) does it have to build a viable state? One that if it moves too close to the West would get Putin acting up all over again. I think he wants it as a buffer between east and west.

It's google translator. I don't care about fucking recession, forces are here and shooting right now. Cops in Odesa released them only because crowd wanted, if crowd would like to rape all cops, they would allow it too? West and Center can't make strong state without East and South. Center - there is most of business, East - indostry. West has no enought resources.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

I think he wants it as a buffer between east and west.

No.

[andyt]

Recession is in Russia - ie sanctions are having some effect.

You've changed your tune. What you're saying now is what I was saying from the beginning - for Ukraine to even have a hope of keeping things together they should have acted right from the beginning. Maybe it even would have suppressed some of the current insurgency. Yes, Russia might roll in in that case, but do nothing and you just hand the place to them on a silver platter.

Realistically tho, Putin has shown himself to be much smarter than anybody else, thinking much further ahead. He won't give up unless East Ukraine is at least a vassal state of his, in his pocket. I guess the south too, tho he may just push there so people are more willing to give up the East if he agrees to let the south alone - barganink chipski.

And that leaves the West, without resources. I don't think it will be a very pleasant place to live for quite some time. Harsh words from me, but I think they are realistic. People have talked about you moving to Canada. Probably a good option if you can swing it, tho you'd have a lot to learn about our legal system and your 99% certainty in rape cases. Maybe you can get Martin to adopt you and sponsor you to Canada.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Recession is in Russia - ie sanctions are having some effect.

You've changed your tune. What you're saying now is what I was saying from the beginning - for Ukraine to even have a hope of keeping things together they should have acted right from the beginning. Maybe it even would have suppressed some of the current insurgency. Yes, Russia might roll in in that case, but do nothing and you just hand the place to them on a silver platter.

Realistically tho, Putin has shown himself to be much smarter than anybody else, thinking much further ahead. He won't give up unless East Ukraine is at least a vassal state of his, in his pocket. I guess the south too, tho he may just push there so people are more willing to give up the East if he agrees to let the south alone - barganink chipski.

And that leaves the West, without resources. I don't think it will be a very pleasant place to live for quite some time. Harsh words from me, but I think they are realistic. People have talked about you moving to Canada. Probably a good option if you can swing it, tho you'd have a lot to learn about our legal system and your 99% certainty in rape cases. Maybe you can get Martin to adopt you and sponsor you to Canada.

No, you are mistaken I still don't want masscare. I want normal protection from police.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

And that leaves the West, without resources. I don't think it will be a very pleasant place to live for quite some time. Harsh words from me, but I think they are realistic. People have talked about you moving to Canada. Probably a good option if you can swing it, tho you'd have a lot to learn about our legal system and your 99% certainty in rape cases. Maybe you can get Martin to adopt you and sponsor you to Canada.

Retarded idiot.

[andyt]

Nobody wants a massacre. The police aren't powerful enough on their own to resist the number of protesters. Especially without using lethal force. Getting shot by police or soldiers is getting shot either way. If the army had stepped up right at the start, that is what might have prevented a massacre since the insurgents and their allies wouldn't have felt like they have free reign. Not rein, reign.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Nobody wants a massacre. The police aren't powerful enough on their own to resist the number of protesters. Especially without using lethal force. Getting shot by police or soldiers is getting shot either way. If the army had stepped up right at the start, that is what might have prevented a massacre since the insurgents and their allies wouldn't have felt like they have free reign. Not rein, reign.

Moron, when it started we 3 weeks didn't know wtf is that.

[andyt]

Maybe you didn't, that's true. Others could see it very clearly. When you have masked, armed men taking over buildings and setting up checkpoints, then you havink headski up asski not to know wtf is that. Especially after Crimea had just gone down.

[PostFactum]

andyt andyt:

Maybe you didn't, that's true. Others could see it very clearly. When you have masked, armed men taking over buildings and setting up checkpoints, then you havink headski up asski not to know wtf is that. Especially after Crimea had just gone down.

Sir, we can't speak. You probably have mental disease and I'm not a doctor.

[Winnipegger]

@PostFactum: In 2001 I translated an article from a Russian journal about a mission plan to send humans to Mars. The plan was proposed by the corporation RSC Energia, not the Russian Space Agency. I don't speak Russian. To translate, I used several websites and compared results. Mostly, I used one Russian and one American. None were perfect, but after merging their results I got a better translation. Acronyms could not be translated; I eventually met an aerospace engineer, an immigrant to Canada from Ukraine who got his degree in Moscow. He was able to tell me what the acronyms meant. But the point is to use more than one translation website. The Russian website http://www.translate.ru does not support Ukrainian. But translate.bing.com does a good job with a web page. Bing is owned by Microsoft; obviously both Google and Bing are American. The Bing version of your articles...

Massacre in Odessa: during mass riots that killed dozens of people

$1:

In these moments the Odessa Police Department continues the urban assault. Pro-Russian separatists demanding release of all detained, suspected in mass riots and massacres in May 2.

Half an hour ago that freed already ten detainees. It writes "ukrayinska Pravda".

But an hour ago aggressors began to destroy doors and window station MIA. Angry men alongside chanted: "Odessa-Russian Gorod", "Fascism not projdet!", "Ubijcy!", "Freedom to the heroes!".

Prior to this, the crowd didn't take out the detainees to court, where they had to consider the question of their detention.

As at 16: 25 the police released the detained. A crowd of frantic applause, shouting and whistling welcomed it, chanting "well done!" and "Odessa!". Report of ten exempted.

In the meantime, UNIAN reports that from behind the bars have released all detainees-and that a few dozen people.

At the same time in the Kulìkovomu field, where going to the local antimajdanìvcì and pro-Russian separatists gathered several thousand people.

The entrance to the House of trade unions in Odessa, opened. On the building of someone hung out a large Russian flag. Recall that during the mass brawls in Odessa may 2, killed 46 people. In Ukraine declared mourning for the dead.

In Odessa during the assault mìs′kupravlìnnâ police injured a journalist

$1:

Today during a storming separatistami mìs′kupravlìnnâ police in Odessa, a journalist, who was dressed in an orange vest, received a bullet in the leg.

Unknown people started to scream that shoot out of the building. Someone shouted that this is provocation, reports UNIAN.

The journalist took the fast.

Note, currently about a thousand separatists were building mìs′kUVS. They chant "freedom!", "Fascists!" and "don't forgive!", "Fascism will not pass!", "Freedom to the heroes!" and demanded that the MEDIA called them "patriots".

They have blocked garbage containers and stone flower beds roadway and pavement on the quarter from Bunin to Zhukovsky. Their actions are explaining what they do not want to enforcement officers drove the detainees in the Primorsky District Court.

Some of protesters will broke through inside the courtyard of the building. Hear the screams and curses.

Remind, in Odessa, the separatists held a brawl during the mìs′kupravlìnnâm militia. In and around again occur collisions.

[Goober911]

andyt andyt:

Maybe you didn't, that's true. Others could see it very clearly. When you have masked, armed men taking over buildings and setting up checkpoints, then you havink headski up asski not to know wtf is that. Especially after Crimea had just gone down.

You keep with that line of thinking. It reinforces how wrong you were, how wrong you still are.
Vlad was waiting for a major push by the Govt. The Govt as anyone could see did not know who could be trusted. Witness the 2 mayors 1 was shot for reversing position to supporting the Govt. the other, a woman was forced to resign, then kidnapped.
You can't even come up with what basic Intel was needed so stating you could see it clearly is utter hogwash.

[Winnipegger]

From that same website
Prosecutors denied the information the police that she allowed the release of 67 separatists in Odessa

$1:

Odessa oblast Prosecutor's Office denied the information the regional militia Leaders that she made the decision to release at will all the 67 detained who participated in mass riots in the city may 2 .

"The media has spread widespread press-service of the MIA of Ukraine in the Odessa region, false information about the release today, as directed by the Prosecutor from Odessa City police management 67 pro-Russian activists who participated in a massive bezladah that took place on May 2," stated in the statement.

The Prosecutor's Office argue that the decision to release separatists took the leadership of the police.

"Prosecutors area belies the above information and reports that the decision to release detained persons was made directly by the bodies of Internal Affairs of the area without any coordination with the bodies of prosecution and police employees after ignoring explicit fulfillment of its duties stipulated by the law of Ukraine" on militia ", specify it in the Procuracy equ.

Also reported that "criminal proceedings according to art. 367 Criminal in fact improper performance of employees of MIA of Ukraine in the Odessa region, their official duties for the protection of public order and for centuries. 365 of the criminal code on the fact of exceeding their official duties ".

Recall today after assault mìs′kvìddìlu police in Odessa fired 67 detainees. Aggressive demonstrators continued to block the vìddìlok and to demand the release of those detainees, which hauled in jail in regional centers of Odessa region.

[Goober911]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

From that same website
Prosecutors denied the information the police that she allowed the release of 67 separatists in Odessa

$1:

Odessa oblast Prosecutor's Office denied the information the regional militia Leaders that she made the decision to release at will all the 67 detained who participated in mass riots in the city may 2 .

"The media has spread widespread press-service of the MIA of Ukraine in the Odessa region, false information about the release today, as directed by the Prosecutor from Odessa City police management 67 pro-Russian activists who participated in a massive bezladah that took place on May 2," stated in the statement.

The Prosecutor's Office argue that the decision to release separatists took the leadership of the police.

"Prosecutors area belies the above information and reports that the decision to release detained persons was made directly by the bodies of Internal Affairs of the area without any coordination with the bodies of prosecution and police employees after ignoring explicit fulfillment of its duties stipulated by the law of Ukraine" on militia ", specify it in the Procuracy equ.

Also reported that "criminal proceedings according to art. 367 Criminal in fact improper performance of employees of MIA of Ukraine in the Odessa region, their official duties for the protection of public order and for centuries. 365 of the criminal code on the fact of exceeding their official duties ".

Recall today after assault mìs′kvìddìlu police in Odessa fired 67 detainees. Aggressive demonstrators continued to block the vìddìlok and to demand the release of those detainees, which hauled in jail in regional centers of Odessa region.

And so acting prevented a large number of deaths.Not giving the Russian what they want.

http://www.dw.de/pro-russians-attack-po ... a-17611736
At the police station, activists reportedly broke windows, forced open its gate and entered an interior courtyard. Ukrainian authorities responded by releasing some people detained in last week's deadly clashes. The Interior Ministry said in a statement that 67 people who were detained were released, but it was not immediately clear whether others were still being held.

According to news agency AFP, more than 2,000 pro-Russian militants, some armed with batons, surrounding the complex. In a bid to appease the crowd, police freed some of the pro-Russians arrested during Friday's clashes.

[BRAH]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

BRAH BRAH:

Not war but together as one voice but they can't even do that, so is NATO even relevant anymore?

The more members, the greater chance of that happening. But what exactly are you talking about?

If NATO can stand together sending Putin the message the West will not stand for this.

[BRAH]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Clearly, NATO is still relevant and it is being called upon to perform it's original, prime function again for the first time in a quarter century ... containing Russian expansion.

Let's hope because we're in another Cold War.