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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:29 pm
 


Goober911 Goober911:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/06/on_israel_s_defeat_in_gaza_cease_fire_hamas_public_opinion



Well there is opinion that Israel does not want to see a united Palestinian authority. Hamas failed big time in Gaza and Fatah had to step in and form a unity government, which as always everyone agreed to, except Israel, because a unified Palestinian govt can put Israels current status quo if wanton land stealing at risk and giving the added excuse to not talking to Fatah too because now Hamas is also part of the govt. So it launched this war at the first possible excuse blaming hamas for the three teenagers ( as posted earlier Israeli insiders have made clear they knew it wasn't hamas )

Although this has back fired big time and damaged Israel's reputation in the global community more than anything in the past, massive world wide protest, statements of condemnations, boycotts and diplomatic withdrawals and rightly so.

Interesting article here. Although I find it a bit naive, that all the solutions it offers is exactly the opposite of what Israel wants and has deliberately done. Literally destroy the economy of Gaza and keeping Gaza and west bank divided so it does not have to deal with a unified front and to keep them hopeless, crushed, dependent and subservient at all times.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.606791

Israel’s best weapon against Hamas: Giving the Palestinians hope.

$1:
It’s easy to criticize the Israeli government’s response to the rockets launched from Gaza in recent weeks. It’s harder to offer an alternative. But honest critics have an obligation to try. So here goes.

The short answer is that I’d treat the rockets as military symptoms of a political problem. That doesn’t mean Israel shouldn’t return fire. If Hamas and Islamic Jihad can attack Israel with impunity, they may never stop. But returning fire—or even invading Gaza—will never make Israel safe.

So what would I do? First, I’d seek a cease-fire that eases those aspects of Israel’s blockade that have no legitimate security rationale. (That doesn’t mean acceding to Hamas’ cease-fire demands but it means recognizing that a cease-fire that does nothing to address the blockade - as Israel wants - won’t last).

.....

It’s helped destroy the independent business class that could have been a check on Hamas’ power, and left many in Gaza with the choice of working for Hamas or receiving food aid.

.....

In addition to goods, Israel should make it easier for people to leave Gaza, too. A quarter of Gazans have family in the West Bank.....But preventing young Gazans from studying in the West Bank - like preventing Gazan businessmen from exporting there - is self-defeating and inhumane. It feeds the isolation and despair that Hamas exploits.

Second, I’d let Hamas take part in a Palestinian unity government that prepares the ground for Palestinian elections. That doesn’t mean tolerating Hamas attacks, to which Israel should always reserve the right to respond. But it means no longer trying to bar Hamas from political participation because of its noxious views.

It’s common to hear pro-Israel hawks ridicule Mahmoud Abbas for lacking authority over Gaza and for serving the 10th year of a four-year presidential term. But by opposing Palestinian elections, Israel creates the very circumstance its supporters bemoan. Without free elections — which means elections in which all major Palestinian parties can run — Palestinian leaders will never enjoy authority in both Gaza and the West Bank nor the legitimacy to make painful compromises on behalf of their people.


Israel wants Hamas barred from any Palestinian unity government, and any Palestinian election, until it accepts the two-state solution and past peace agreements. But as I’ve suggested before, the current Israeli government probably couldn’t meet those conditions.

There’s a better way. What’s crucial is not that Hamas as a party endorse the two-state solution. After all, Likud as a party has not endorsed the two state-solution, either. What’s crucial is that Hamas promise to respect a two-state agreement if endorsed by the Palestinian people in a referendum. In the past, Hamas leaders have told the media they would. Israel, or its Western allies, should get that pledge in writing, and, in return, allow the free elections necessary to produce a Palestinian leadership with the legitimacy to make a deal.

Finally, Israel should do everything it can — short of rigging the elections — to ensure that Hamas doesn’t win. Already, polls show that Abbas would defeat Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh easily. (If Israel really wanted to crush Hamas, it could release jailed Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti, who has strongly endorsed the two state solution, and who in polls defeats Haniyeh by an even larger margin). But Israel could also help ensure Hamas’ defeat by showing Palestinians that Abbas’ strategy of recognizing Israel, and helping it combat terrorism, actually works. It could do so by freezing settlement growth and publicly committing to a Palestinian state near the 1967 lines with a capital in East Jerusalem. That would give Abbas an instant boost.

Hamas’ great ally is despair. It grows stronger when Palestinians decide that settlement growth has made the two-state solution impossible. It gains strength when Palestinians decide that leaders like Abbas and Salam Fayyad are fools for helping Israel police the West Bank while getting only massive settlement subsidies in return.

Nothing would weaken Hamas more than growing Palestinian faith that through nonviolence and mutual recognition, they can win the basic rights they’ve been denied for almost half a century. Israel’s best long-term strategy against Palestinian violence is Palestinian hope. Unfortunately, as effective as Benjamin Netanyahu has been at destroying Palestinian rockets, he’s been even more effective at destroying that.



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:23 am
 


Israel resumes bombing Gaza after refusing to extend the 72 hour ceasefire pulling out of talks in Cairo after rejecting to accept the easing of the blockade. In retaliation Hamas launches more rockets and the carnage resumes.


http://www.firstpost.com/world/gaza-liv ... 54201.html


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:57 am
 


From the link:

$1:
"Israel will not negotiate under fire," the official said on condition of anonymity, noting Israel had informed Egypt of its willingness to extend the truce by another three days before "Hamas breached the ceasefire".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:05 am
 


desertdude desertdude:
Israel resumes bombing Gaza after refusing to extend the 72 hour ceasefire pulling out of talks in Cairo after rejecting to accept the easing of the blockade. In retaliation Hamas launches more rockets and the carnage resumes.


http://www.firstpost.com/world/gaza-liv ... 54201.html

Hamas broke the Cease-Fire but facts don't matter because it's always Israel's fault. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:26 am
 


desertdude desertdude:
Israel resumes bombing Gaza after refusing to extend the 72 hour ceasefire pulling out of talks in Cairo after rejecting to accept the easing of the blockade. In retaliation Hamas launches more rockets and the carnage resumes.


http://www.firstpost.com/world/gaza-liv ... 54201.html

Appears Hamas fired first.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:54 am
 


Goober911 Goober911:

Appears Hamas fired first.[/quote]


Appears you're right.

$1:
11:52 am: Gaza rockets hit Israel as ceasefire expiry nears: army

Rockets fired from the Gaza Strip crashed into Israel Friday, the army said, less than four hours from the scheduled expiry of a three-day truce.


Still the truce cannot be extended because Israel refuses to ease the blockade, the very thing which is a major reason for all the troubles since 2007 as posted in the Haaretz article a few posts back.

Even if a longer ceasefire is agreed upon, troubles will flare up sometime in the near future until the siege ends.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:13 am
 




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:26 am
 


Myth of indefensible borders

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 69,00.html


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:47 am
 


That's an interesting argument. 'Israel doesn't have to worry about defense if it relies on offense based on the current warfare style in the region'.

Such things change though. There's no telling how far or fast ISIS will move west. I think if they attack with that blitzkrieg style they use you might want a buffer zone. Maybe it might be more clever to wait a while to see how things might change before relying only on modified warfare strategies for current modes in the region. Then there's Iran. What to do if they all of a sudden decide the 12th Imam has arrived and start moving west.

I definitely wouldn't want to stop the blockade and allow Hamas to rearm at present either. They say offense is the best defense, but ask any football coach, defense is good too.

Speaking of YNet anlysis though, that reminds me. They had a good one yesterday.

$1:
Foreign journalists reveal Hamas' false front

A day after Operation Protective Edge ended, a truer picture slowly began emerging: foreign reporters leaving the Gaza Strip revealed what Israel has claimed all along – that Hamas is firing out of population hubs and near UN facilities.

Why didn't they report those facts during the ongoing fighting? According to the reporters, they feared for their lives. "We saw the Hamas men," a Spanish reporter admitted. "But had we dared point the cameras at them, they would have opened fire at us and killed us."



Now that they're out of the Gaza Strip, the reporters are revealing what Hamas tried to prevent the world from seeing. An Indian reporter, for example, documented how Hamas militants launched rockets from a post right outside the window of the hotel where he was staying in the Gaza Strip, shortly before the ceasefire came into effect. The video aired only after the reporter left Gaza. When asked about it, he replied: "There's a conspiracy of silence rooted in fear – no one want to report in real-time"...


More at link


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:22 pm
 


desertdude desertdude:
Goober911 Goober911:

Appears Hamas fired first.



Appears you're right.

$1:
11:52 am: Gaza rockets hit Israel as ceasefire expiry nears: army

Rockets fired from the Gaza Strip crashed into Israel Friday, the army said, less than four hours from the scheduled expiry of a three-day truce.


Still the truce cannot be extended because Israel refuses to ease the blockade, the very thing which is a major reason for all the troubles since 2007 as posted in the Haaretz article a few posts back.

Even if a longer ceasefire is agreed upon, troubles will flare up sometime in the near future until the siege ends.[/quote]
Israel wants Hamas to disarm. That ain't gonna happening. Israel would let the PLO operate the border crossings - to Israel-Egypt- is what I have read???


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:41 pm
 


Link please.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:01 pm
 


desertdude desertdude:
Link please.

I read that today- cannot find the link- PLO to run civil govt.
And including border crossings.
Israel wants Hhamas disarmed - they would and did refuse.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:14 pm
 


I seriously doubt Israel giving up the siege of Gaza, which goes against everything Israel has said and done till now. Everything I can dig up says the same thing, it won't end the siege. It may throw up smoke screens like it always does by making statements like it won't negotiate under fire, when the truth of the matter s it hasn't negotiated even when it wasn't.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:59 pm
 


Apparently a good head of steam building for Europe building and supervising a port in Gaza - that would really help.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:02 pm
 


The port in Gaza would come under lifting the blockade, because not only is the land border blocked so is the sea, remember the case of Mavi Marmara


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