[DerbyX]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Nope. I proved it to you 3 times now. You just like to think you're 'forum-tough'.
That's why you use stupid phrases like "tore it to shreds"
What an olympian level goof! I've proved it 3 times now and all you do is play this game where you come back, refuse to read the graph and call me 'moron' and 'liar' as though you were some kind of 'great debater'....phfft. Great masurbator maybe.

Aww, my poor little buddy is back. I guess you really are smarting from the beating you took in the afghan thread to continually make me correct you again and again and again.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Guess I'll have to whip this out and shove it in your face again since all you can do is ignore it...run away from the thread and then come back later claiming to be a 'winner' lol.

$1:

Table 8.2: Percentage Change in Taxes From 1965 to 1996

Total change (Percentage)
Change by tax type (Percentage)

Profit and Income
Social Security
Property
Goods and Services

United States 17.3 15.4 118.8 -20.5 10.9
Japan 55.2 30.0 160.0 113.3 8.3
United Kingdom 18.4 16.8 31.9 13.6 25.7
Canada 42.1 74.0 328.6 2.7 13.3
OECD average 45.0 47.3 104.2 0.0 23.7
Germany 20.6 0.9 82.4 38.9 1.9
Italy 69.4 223.9 70.1 27.8 10.9
France 32.5 49.1 66.9 53.3 5.3
Sweden 48.6 10.9 269.0 233.3 8.3

There ya go Derby. '65 to 96. More taxes than most people on Earth.

Where does it show that? In fact despite the reality you are only comparing OECD and not the entire earth you make no really population comparisons do you? Despite the reality that we are continually appearing in the middle and below the OECD average you persist in your delusion because you are trying to force a piss-poor point. You can't even honestly claim we are paying more taxes then most of the people in the OECD. Lets look at a graph from your link.



Canada sits in the middle beneath the OECD average and suffering only in comparison to the US and Japan. Behind Germany, Italy, France, and Sweden. Population wise I'd say that puts us paying less taxes then about half the people. Consider that yet another point nullification.

Again, while it contains mostly only up-to-date info you see that on virtually every stat in Nation Masters taxation stats you'll see Canada not leading the pack and that includes income tax, sales tax, payroll tax, etc.

Once again I'll point out that we were way down in 2005 of course you aren't reading and comprehending are you. You'll cry and claim that these stats don't take into account our GST but so what? Neither are you.

$1:

The level of Taxation in Canada is average among Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries. Approximately 70% of the Canadian government's income comes from taxation, the rest from tariffs, fees, and investments.

Average doesn't mean "more the most people on earth" genius.

In fact since you keep trying to weasel your way out of "most people on earth" to mean "most people in the OECD" take a look at the actual OECD site instead of the right wing biased Frasier Institutes piece.

Take special note of the part: Special Feature: Consumption taxation as an additional burden on labour income.

Of course just look at how much other countries pay. The UK pays 17.5% VAT, Australia is 10%, US states have sales taxes from 0-13%, Norway, Denmark, Sweden have 25%. In fact just about every country charges some form of sales tax or another but you knew that didn't you.

Not once have you actually demonstrated that Canada is in fact so highly taxed that we come close to being taxed more the most people on earth. You have failed that part badly. Next you have utterly even failed to tie it into the Liberals instead trying to tie it into my statement that they have been in power for the most years and therefore must be to blame. The fact is that Mulroney brought in the highest taxation levels and the Chretien Liberals simply went down from there.

You have failed every single facet of your argument and i have in fact torn it to shreds sunshine.

Hell I didn't even make the point about comparing quality of life stats which should be included since taxes go towards that factor.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

I'm not going to argue about the Liberals hacking the military to shreds. Everyone knows that. To argue it is to argue that black is actually green.

In other words you aren't even informed enough to put forth even a mediocre effort. Are you taking into account the St Laurent Liberals (48-57) arguably some of the strongest days of the military? Nope you aren't. How about Lester Pearson (63-68)? Nope you aren't. Nope you are basing your uninformed opinion entirely on the cutbacks made by Chretien and possibly Trudeau. You certainly aren't takign into account Mulroney's damage nor Martins revival post 2001 when he was the first PM in a long time to really fund the military. In fact your little hissy comment was just partisan crap with no historical reference or analysis.

Next.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

The manufacturing? Well they're responsible for our dismal manufacturing sector because as you already pointed out: they've been in power for 75 years! They've had 75 years to build a decent manufacturing base and we still don't have one.

Got any stats to back that up? Any evidence there sunshine? I thought not. In fact all you are doing is spouting some mis-informed garbage and trying to pin it on the Libs. Ontario Automotive industry ring a bell? Up until Harper took over (and now PublicAnimal, I'm not blaming him) it has been growing and growing but how much of that is due to any actual government is up for debate.

Canadian Automotive Industry 2002.

$1:

NAFTA PARTNERS IN PERSPECTIVE - MOTOR VEHICLES - 2001
Canada U.S. Mexico
Population 31 081 900 284 796 900 98 872 000
Vehicle Sales 1 598 256 17 472 520 925 308
Vehicle Production 2 532 363 11 424 689 1 857 114
Assembly Mfg. Employment 51 400 333 000 59 900a
Parts Mfg. Employment 95 000 511 300 413 300a
Vehicles Produced per Assembly Employee 49 34 31
Vehicles Produced per 1000 Citizens 79 40 19
Vehicles Sold per 1000 Citizens 50 61 9

2006 data

$1:

NAFTA Partners in Perspective 2006
Canada U.S. Mexico
Population 32,623,490 299,398,484 108,700,891
Total vehicle sales 1,666,008 17,048,981 1,177,100
Total vehicle production 2,571,366 11,260,277 2,045,518
Assembly employment 47,460 235,700 42,616*
Parts mfg. employment 92,315 654,200 394,200*
Vehicles produced per assembly employee 54 48 48
Vehicles sold per 1000 citizens 51 57 11
*2004 figures

Thats just automotive. It certainly isn't the whole of our manufacturing capabilities. In fact sunshine I think you'll find that in the last 50 years we have gone from manufactured goods being a very small % of our exports to a much larger % of our exports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada#Economy

$1:

Canada is one of the world's wealthiest nations, with a high per capita income, and is a member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the G8. It is one of the world's top ten trading nations.[80] Canada is a mixed market,[81] ranking lower than the U.S. but higher than most western European nations on the Heritage Foundation's index of economic freedom.[82] Since the early 1990s, the Canadian economy has been growing rapidly, with low unemployment and large government surpluses on the federal level. Today, Canada resembles the U.S. in its market-oriented economic system, pattern of production, and high living standards.

In the past century, the growth of the manufacturing, mining, and service sectors has transformed the nation from a largely rural economy into one primarily industrial and urban.

Canada also has a sizable manufacturing sector centred in southern Ontario and Quebec, with automobiles and aeronautics representing particularly important industries.

Now how much of that can be attributed to the Liberals, or any government for that matter is up for debate. Many will point out that our proximity to the US is a primary cause and they might be right but it certainly destroys your idiotic nonsense that Canada has no manufacturing sector to speak of.

Now the rest of your garbage is just you trying to cover up the fact you made a piss-poor argument and can't admit it.

The coles notes version goes like this:

You: made a partisan jibe about the Liberals being annihilated in the next election.

$1:

3-time losers.
77 seats, down to 26 seats...what's next? 11 seats? Fighting for elbow room witht he NDP? LOL...how far the Liberal party has sunk.

Me: responding with a partisan jab back.

$1:

Sure sunshine. Let us know when they are reduced to 2 seats like your old party was. Until then try and remember which party has been in power for some 75% of the time in Canada's history.

You: realizing I am quite correct tried to attack that fact by claiming

$1:

That must be why we've gotten nowhere, pay more taxes than most anyone on earth, have no military, no manufacturing to speak of....

All of which I have destroyed. You see you in fact tried to claim all those bad things about Canada like "why we've gotten nowhere" because of the Liberals, a party you apparently voted for (ya right). It was more an attack against a party I support because I support them but once you claimed it you had to back it up.

To summarize. You failed to make your case about taxes. You failed to make even a summary case that it was because of the Liberals that taxes were rising since the early half of the century because you were ignorant that it was a pattern of pretty much all the industrialized nations. You completely failed to even come close to proving Canadians "pay more taxes then most anyone on earth" as you hung your entire argument on a Frasier study which showed us below OECD average circa 1996 (supposedly our highest tax paying year). Utterly utterly failed.

You failed to make your case about the Liberals and the military even if that point can be made about Chretien and possibly Trudeau. You certainly failed to take past Liberals into account (or the Mulroney factor) and certainly didn't even attempt to factor in other data such as debt, deficit, cold war tensions, etc.

Your point about the manufacturing was just utter nonsense. You had no evidence whatsoever to even suggest it and simply tossed it out there as a seemingly random criticism against the Libs. Even a cursory examination by somebody not connected to the manufacturing industry can see that it has done nothing but grow since the 50s. Hell you didn't even try to target specific industries such as aerospace or shipping but that would require actual knowledge which you don't have.

FYI, research what happened to Canada's aerospace industry and which government was responsible for that.

In short its not even worth making fun of your pathetic and childish attempts to claim I'm the child here when right from the first post to me you demonstrated your childishness.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Whatever. Derby know's he's full of crap. The dude'll say anything.

Sure I do sunshine. I know that Harpers full of crap and he'll say anything because guess who has been saying for nearly 3 months now that the deficit is in fact not structural and that no tax hikes will be necessary in conflict with Kevin Pages assessement.

Now Iggy might be saying it because he is banking on the rosier BOC picture that we are coming out of the recession and he is confident he can budget properly to cut the red without raising taxes. He might. Its far more likely he realizes how unpopular a tax hike is even if its the right thing and figures if Harper can claim it then so can he and at least draw even of him during an election.

On yer bike sunshine (the classics are always better).

[Akhenaten]

That was a long post that didn't do anything to counter my proven fact that we are one of the most taxed people in the world and by concentrating on the fragile automotive industry as your holy grail of Canadian manufacturing you only prove my point that we don't really have any to be proud of or to rely on like many other nations much poorer than us. So basically you proved my point: Liberals have done fuck all for the manufacturing sector and the one we have is a disgrace.

$1:

All of which I have destroyed. You see you in fact tried to claim all those bad things about Canada like "why we've gotten nowhere" because of the Liberals, a party you apparently voted for (ya right).

Your refusal to believe this rather ordinary and pedestrian fact illuminates the fact that you're a bobblehead who will follow any commands given by your party and vote for them even if they were lead by a hamster. I'm smarter than that. I voted Liberal back when the only other choice was to vote for Mulroney and I voted for them before that as well. That you claim to think that story is hard to believe is just more of your stubborn insincereity and childishness coming out.

$1:

I guess you really are smarting from the beating you took in the afghan thread to continually make me correct you again and again and again.

No you're the one smarting from that. I proved my contention there and you counldnt take it. Just like you couldn't take it here and within 3 posts it was you calling me names.

Oh and the argument we had about the taliban starting in pakistan? Well you had no trouble finding BS .org links that spout off nonsense, while I needed you to read actual books before you could 'get it'. But here we are again. You need more proof of what everyone already knows: The Taliban originated in Pakistan. ok. Here's Gwynne Dyer, a man whose little finger knows more about the Taliban, Pakistan and the politics of the region than you ever will:
here:

$1:

Not so, says Dyer. What actually happened was that the Pakistan intelligence agency had created a group called the Taliban to help them in their endless conflict with India.

link
Opps! Wrong again Derby...just one more failure of yours that causes you to throw your hands over your ears and refuse to listen, while rocking back and forth in the fetal position muttering "i won the debate...I won the debate...". No you LOST. You're WRONG.
Unfortunately in order to get this level of education on the region you'd have to pick up a book and we both know you won't do that. This is EXACTLY what I said and you argued against for pages and pages, refusing to accept any of the ample evidence I supplied. You didn't know this of course because you don't read. You just yak.
Since I know you're too dishonest and obstinant to accept the above quote, when i get home I'm going to innondate you with a dozen more links you won't be able to argue with, not to mention excerps from books you'll never have to patience to read... and I can only wait to see what kind of nasty names your mother taught you that you'll hurl my way in frustration from being wrong.

[DerbyX]

Ooh, off topic off topic.

Obviously you can't defeat my last argument so you dredge up this even if it is in response to my comment.

Ohhh, Gwynne Dyer eh? I'm not rehashing this argument with you yet again just to prove that the Taliban is indeed made up of Afghanstans and that the whole tribal thing crosses national boundaries anyway. The main point there was they are far more apart of that region then any NATO country.

I find it just a joke that you claim my links are BS then post a Canadian journalists opinion as proof. I'm going to give you the same advice I gave OTI. You need to relax and watch the blood pressure.

I don't care what links you post here and the mods will likely lock the thread and/or warn us both for launching an even further off-topic flame war.

And yet again you post and then go back and continually add to it.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

Ooh, off topic off topic.
[Obviously you can't defeat my last argument so you dredge up this.

Uh you're the one who 'dredged up' this 'off topic' comment. As usual you bring it up then run away. And I already 'defeated' your last 'argument', but you can't win a debate with a liar or someone who refuses to read. Hilarious. Brings up the Taliban argument as an excuse to prance around like a puppy claiming he 'gave me a beating' on the topic, now that he's faced with something he can't argue against he claims it's off topic and runs away. Typical childishness from Derby.

$1:

Ohhh, Gwynne Dyer eh? I'm not rehashing this argument

That's because you can't. You lost. I said The Taliban originated in Pakistan and you claimed that was BS. Now you're claiming something else entirely. You can't win here because in order to know anything about it you'd have to pick up a book for once in your life, and you and I both know you wont.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

I find it just a joke that you claim my links are BS then post a Canadian journalists opinion as proof.

He's a professor. You posted BS .org links written by nobodies.
lol...Only a desperate liar would try and dismiss Gwynne Dyer as simply "some Canadian journalist". What a hack you are Derby.

$1:

I don't care what links you post here and the mods will likely lock the thread and/or warn us both for launching an even further off-topic flame war.

Yeah well the entire manufacturing sector/taxes etc is off topic and you'd done you best to keep that going so quit pointing fingers hypocrit.

[DerbyX]

Blah, blah, blah. I've said all I need to in order to defeat your point about taxes and your pathetic claim about manufacturing. You can claim all you want about the Taliban but it doesn't alter the fact it was headed and started by a Afghan former mujahideed and recruited heavily from Afghan villages and Afghan refugee camps. Your entire point was based entirely around trying to prove that the Taliban way wasn't truly an Afghan way (as if any tribe can claim that fully) and for evidence you claimed they were nothing more then Pakistanis.

Amazing how you forget even your own arguments.

You go home and spend the rest of the night trying to one-up with links and any other crap you can dredge up. Your previous argument was defeated handily and I see no reason to spend the start of a long weekend where we have fabulous weather here right now correcting you over and over and over.

Ta.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

I've said all I need to in order to defeat your point about taxes and your pathetic claim about manufacturing.

Nope. you lost. LOST. We DO pay more taxes than most on earth. I just proved it. Our manufacturing sector does lag behind. You sit there in the fetal position rocking back and forth muttering "i handidly defeated him....I handidly defeated him". lol. What a living joke.

$1:

You can claim all you want about the Taliban but it doesn't alter the fact it was headed and started by a Afghan former mujahideed and recruited heavily from Afghan villages and Afghan refugee camps.

Nope. It was started in Pakistan by the ISI. Just porved that but you refuse to read and accept.

$1:

Your entire point was based entirely around trying to prove that the Taliban way wasn't truly an Afghan way

...and it's not. Anyone who's been paying attention to recent events in Pakistan involving the Taliban would admit this if they had a single honest bone in their body, but 'winning an argument' is just oo important ot you just as it usually is with teenagers.

$1:

Your previous argument was defeated handily

You go ahead and keep telling yourself that, I know your fragile ego and life devoid of accomplishments forces you to delude yourself like this constantly. I proved everything I said: For years we have been paying more taxes thanmost on Earth and our manufacturing sector is lame.

"off you go now".....(I love that line of yours. So full of insecurity)

[DerbyX]

Boy, I must have really hurt you.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

Boy, I must have really hurt you.

Anything to avoid the facts. Now here you are again showing all that lies within your mind: the childish insecure need to think you've 'hurt' or 'defeated' someone. So completely delusional you refuse to accept all the reality that speaks against it. I think you really need to seek help.

"I must have really hurt you"... wow. Talk about delusional small-dick syndrome. Keep telling yourself that. Frankly I enjoy walking all over you and giving you facts you can't ignore just to see how you're going to squirm and meanly-mouth your way out of it.


Remember now...

$1:

What actually happened was that the Pakistan intelligence agency had created a group called the Taliban to help them in their endless conflict with India.

...not organic Afghans.

[DerbyX]

You keep telling yourself that sunshine as you launch post after post trying to cover up that I defeated your point on taxes, manufacturing, the military, that whole "we've gotten nowhere crap" and now your false belief about the Taliban.

Ta.

[Akhenaten]

Nope. you haven't defeated anything. That's something you keep telling yourself. I proved that we've paid more taxes than most people on Earth over and over again and each time you just cover your ears and mutter, "I've defeated you...I've defeated you!". I didn't need to prove my point about the military because everyone already knows this, that you won't admit it is moot. And the manufacuring sector? Well like I say all you can do is point to a failing auto industry and that proves my point right there.

What kind of useless existance you must live, what a life devoid of true achievement you must be cursed with to keep living in this make believe world where you think you've 'defeated' people on a discussion forum -- especially when it's obsious you haven't.

[DerbyX]

You keep saying that but the fact is all the data, even the one you posted show Canada being middle of the pack for the OECD.

You keep up your delusion though sunshine.

Now you claim the auto sectors current woes (all under Harpers tenure and nor the Libs) is proof that Canada has no manufacturing to speak of and all because of the libs eh?

Pathetic you need to spend all your free time crying about me defeating your argument and claiming I didn't when its obvious the evidence supports mine.

We can go round and round like this but thats getting us nowhere. BTW, you claim I'm all about the insults and flaming but here: post1536069#p1536069 you seem to be. Hell I'm even on your side in this argument both in viewpoint and opposition to riden.

I'm done with you on this thread.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

You keep saying that but the fact is all the data, even the one you posted show Canada being middle of the pack for the OECD.

You can't read. Wasn't middle of the pack it was 4th place and well above the average.

$1:

BTW, you claim I'm all about the insults and flaming but here: post1536069#p1536069 you seem to be.

Blah blah blah. No doubt you need to go searching all over this forum for something out of context. Last thing you want to do is look at this thread -- the one in question -- where within 3 posts you start calling me a moron without any provication towards name calling on my part.
link

DerbyX DerbyX:

Don't be so stupid you moron.

Of course this happened after you got caught trying to rephrase what I said in order to make it easier for you to argue.
Here you are again:

$1:

A closer look reveals that Canada has the highest income and profit taxes as a percentage of total taxes, the lowest social security taxes, and high property taxes. Some claim that these low social security taxes give Canada room to raise contribution rates but they miss certain facts.

Table 8.1: International Tax Comparisons, 1996

Total tax as a percent of GDP
Taxes as a percent of total taxes

Income and Profits
Social Security
Property
Goods and Services
Other

United States 28.5 47.2 24.7 11.0 17.2 0.0
Japan 28.4 36.6 36.5 11.3 15.4 0.2
United Kingdom 36.0 36.8 17.3 10.6 35.2 0.1
Canada 36.8 47.3 16.3 10.4 24.9 1.1
OECD average 37.7 35.3 25.1 5.4 32.5 1.7
Germany 38.1 28.4 40.6 3.0 27.9 0.1
Italy 43.2 34.4 34.2 5.4 25.9 0.1
France 45.7 18.0 43.1 5.1 27.3 6.5
Sweden 52.0 41.0 29.8 3.8 22.8 2.6

Top 4 again...in 1996.
link
You'll notice that we are number 4, (more than most in the world) and WAY above average, which is what you claim.

And again, number 4, more than most on Earth between '65 and 96:

$1:

Table 8.2: Percentage Change in Taxes From 1965 to 1996

Total change (Percentage)
Change by tax type (Percentage)

Profit and Income
Social Security
Property
Goods and Services

United States 17.3 15.4 118.8 -20.5 10.9
Japan 55.2 30.0 160.0 113.3 8.3
United Kingdom 18.4 16.8 31.9 13.6 25.7
Canada 42.1 74.0 328.6 2.7 13.3
OECD average 45.0 47.3 104.2 0.0 23.7
Germany 20.6 0.9 82.4 38.9 1.9
Italy 69.4 223.9 70.1 27.8 10.9
France 32.5 49.1 66.9 53.3 5.3
Sweden 48.6 10.9 269.0 233.3 8.3

For years above average, way above average and more than most on earth.

I won. You lost.

[DerbyX]

Where does it show that? In fact despite the reality you are only comparing OECD and not the entire earth you make no really population comparisons do you? Despite the reality that we are continually appearing in the middle and below the OECD average you persist in your delusion because you are trying to force a piss-poor point. You can't even honestly claim we are paying more taxes then most of the people in the OECD. Lets look at a graph from your link.



Canada sits in the middle beneath the OECD average and suffering only in comparison to the US and Japan. Behind Germany, Italy, France, and Sweden. Population wise I'd say that puts us paying less taxes then about half the people. Consider that yet another point nullification.

Again, while it contains mostly only up-to-date info you see that on virtually every stat in Nation Masters taxation stats you'll see Canada not leading the pack and that includes income tax, sales tax, payroll tax, etc.

Once again I'll point out that we were way down in 2005 of course you aren't reading and comprehending are you. You'll cry and claim that these stats don't take into account our GST but so what? Neither are you.

$1:

The level of Taxation in Canada is average among Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries. Approximately 70% of the Canadian government's income comes from taxation, the rest from tariffs, fees, and investments.

Average doesn't mean "more the most people on earth" genius.

In fact since you keep trying to weasel your way out of "most people on earth" to mean "most people in the OECD" take a look at the actual OECD site instead of the right wing biased Frasier Institutes piece.

Take special note of the part: Special Feature: Consumption taxation as an additional burden on labour income.

Of course just look at how much other countries pay. The UK pays 17.5% VAT, Australia is 10%, US states have sales taxes from 0-13%, Norway, Denmark, Sweden have 25%. In fact just about every country charges some form of sales tax or another but you knew that didn't you.

Not once have you actually demonstrated that Canada is in fact so highly taxed that we come close to being taxed more the most people on earth. You have failed that part badly. Next you have utterly even failed to tie it into the Liberals instead trying to tie it into my statement that they have been in power for the most years and therefore must be to blame. The fact is that Mulroney brought in the highest taxation levels and the Chretien Liberals simply went down from there.

You have failed every single facet of your argument and i have in fact torn it to shreds sunshine.

Hell I didn't even make the point about comparing quality of life stats which should be included since taxes go towards that factor.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

I'm not going to argue about the Liberals hacking the military to shreds. Everyone knows that. To argue it is to argue that black is actually green.

In other words you aren't even informed enough to put forth even a mediocre effort. Are you taking into account the St Laurent Liberals (48-57) arguably some of the strongest days of the military? Nope you aren't. How about Lester Pearson (63-68)? Nope you aren't. Nope you are basing your uninformed opinion entirely on the cutbacks made by Chretien and possibly Trudeau. You certainly aren't takign into account Mulroney's damage nor Martins revival post 2001 when he was the first PM in a long time to really fund the military. In fact your little hissy comment was just partisan crap with no historical reference or analysis.

Next.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

The manufacturing? Well they're responsible for our dismal manufacturing sector because as you already pointed out: they've been in power for 75 years! They've had 75 years to build a decent manufacturing base and we still don't have one.

Got any stats to back that up? Any evidence there sunshine? I thought not. In fact all you are doing is spouting some mis-informed garbage and trying to pin it on the Libs. Ontario Automotive industry ring a bell? Up until Harper took over (and now PublicAnimal, I'm not blaming him) it has been growing and growing but how much of that is due to any actual government is up for debate.

Canadian Automotive Industry 2002.

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NAFTA PARTNERS IN PERSPECTIVE - MOTOR VEHICLES - 2001
Canada U.S. Mexico
Population 31 081 900 284 796 900 98 872 000
Vehicle Sales 1 598 256 17 472 520 925 308
Vehicle Production 2 532 363 11 424 689 1 857 114
Assembly Mfg. Employment 51 400 333 000 59 900a
Parts Mfg. Employment 95 000 511 300 413 300a
Vehicles Produced per Assembly Employee 49 34 31
Vehicles Produced per 1000 Citizens 79 40 19
Vehicles Sold per 1000 Citizens 50 61 9

2006 data

$1:

NAFTA Partners in Perspective 2006
Canada U.S. Mexico
Population 32,623,490 299,398,484 108,700,891
Total vehicle sales 1,666,008 17,048,981 1,177,100
Total vehicle production 2,571,366 11,260,277 2,045,518
Assembly employment 47,460 235,700 42,616*
Parts mfg. employment 92,315 654,200 394,200*
Vehicles produced per assembly employee 54 48 48
Vehicles sold per 1000 citizens 51 57 11
*2004 figures

Thats just automotive. It certainly isn't the whole of our manufacturing capabilities. In fact sunshine I think you'll find that in the last 50 years we have gone from manufactured goods being a very small % of our exports to a much larger % of our exports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada#Economy

$1:

Canada is one of the world's wealthiest nations, with a high per capita income, and is a member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the G8. It is one of the world's top ten trading nations.[80] Canada is a mixed market,[81] ranking lower than the U.S. but higher than most western European nations on the Heritage Foundation's index of economic freedom.[82] Since the early 1990s, the Canadian economy has been growing rapidly, with low unemployment and large government surpluses on the federal level. Today, Canada resembles the U.S. in its market-oriented economic system, pattern of production, and high living standards.

In the past century, the growth of the manufacturing, mining, and service sectors has transformed the nation from a largely rural economy into one primarily industrial and urban.

Canada also has a sizable manufacturing sector centred in southern Ontario and Quebec, with automobiles and aeronautics representing particularly important industries.

Now how much of that can be attributed to the Liberals, or any government for that matter is up for debate. Many will point out that our proximity to the US is a primary cause and they might be right but it certainly destroys your idiotic nonsense that Canada has no manufacturing sector to speak of.

Now the rest of your garbage is just you trying to cover up the fact you made a piss-poor argument and can't admit it.

The coles notes version goes like this:

You: made a partisan jibe about the Liberals being annihilated in the next election.

$1:

3-time losers.
77 seats, down to 26 seats...what's next? 11 seats? Fighting for elbow room witht he NDP? LOL...how far the Liberal party has sunk.

Me: responding with a partisan jab back.

$1:

Sure sunshine. Let us know when they are reduced to 2 seats like your old party was. Until then try and remember which party has been in power for some 75% of the time in Canada's history.

You: realizing I am quite correct tried to attack that fact by claiming

$1:

That must be why we've gotten nowhere, pay more taxes than most anyone on earth, have no military, no manufacturing to speak of....

All of which I have destroyed. You see you in fact tried to claim all those bad things about Canada like "why we've gotten nowhere" because of the Liberals, a party you apparently voted for (ya right). It was more an attack against a party I support because I support them but once you claimed it you had to back it up.

To summarize. You failed to make your case about taxes. You failed to make even a summary case that it was because of the Liberals that taxes were rising since the early half of the century because you were ignorant that it was a pattern of pretty much all the industrialized nations. You completely failed to even come close to proving Canadians "pay more taxes then most anyone on earth" as you hung your entire argument on a Frasier study which showed us below OECD average circa 1996 (supposedly our highest tax paying year). Utterly utterly failed.

You failed to make your case about the Liberals and the military even if that point can be made about Chretien and possibly Trudeau. You certainly failed to take past Liberals into account (or the Mulroney factor) and certainly didn't even attempt to factor in other data such as debt, deficit, cold war tensions, etc.

Your point about the manufacturing was just utter nonsense. You had no evidence whatsoever to even suggest it and simply tossed it out there as a seemingly random criticism against the Libs. Even a cursory examination by somebody not connected to the manufacturing industry can see that it has done nothing but grow since the 50s. Hell you didn't even try to target specific industries such as aerospace or shipping but that would require actual knowledge which you don't have.

FYI, research what happened to Canada's aerospace industry and which government was responsible for that.

In short its not even worth making fun of your pathetic and childish attempts to claim I'm the child here when right from the first post to me you demonstrated your childishness.

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Whatever. Derby know's he's full of crap. The dude'll say anything.

Sure I do sunshine. I know that Harpers full of crap and he'll say anything because guess who has been saying for nearly 3 months now that the deficit is in fact not structural and that no tax hikes will be necessary in conflict with Kevin Pages assessement.

Now Iggy might be saying it because he is banking on the rosier BOC picture that we are coming out of the recession and he is confident he can budget properly to cut the red without raising taxes. He might. Its far more likely he realizes how unpopular a tax hike is even if its the right thing and figures if Harper can claim it then so can he and at least draw even of him during an election.

On yer bike sunshine (the classics are always better).

[Akhenaten]

Yawn.

You lost. No manufacuring except a failing auto industry and for 40 years we've been paying more taxes than most on Earth.....and the Taliban was an invention of the Pakistan ISI not Afghans.

You lose. Go cry.