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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:25 pm
 


$1:
[align=center]Standards of accuracy at Liberal Caucus Research[/align]I can understand why the Liberals have embraced the Chuck Cadman allegations -- or, more accurately, third-hand allegations, three years after the fact, when the man in question is deceased. Anything to change the channel from their budget debacle. You've really got to listen to the fogginess of the allegations here to understand what we're dealing with. Add in the facts that:

*the two people at that meeting who are still alive categorically deny the allegations;

*the allegations were made public as the book's publisher was putting the book to market;

*for some reason, former Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin was given a draft copy of the book;

*it's impossible to buy a million-dollar insurance policy for someone quickly dying of cancer;

*such an expenditure by the Conservatives could not be secretly approved;

*a cautious, calm hand like Tom Flanagan would not think a single vote was worth the near-million dollars such a policy would cost, given the imminence of the Liberals' defeat;

*nor would Flanagan think it would be a sound political risk to put such a bribe to a principled man like Cadman (or anyone); andto put it to him a few minutes before the vote they were trying to influence would be absurd and incredible.

Is there some way for us to measure the accuracy of the Liberal claims, other than by gut feel? Is there a way to see how carefully they measure facts, and how ethically they deploy them?

I think there is. Because, as part of their Question Period attack against the Tories yesterday, I came across this gem:

"Ms. Raymonde Folco (Laval-Les Iles, Lib.):

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised to hear such things, seeing as Mr. Cadman's legislative assistant confirmed that everything Mr. Cadman's widow said was true. What are they trying to accomplish by saying things like that?


There are plenty more examples of suspicious activity. A former member of Parliament for the Prime Minister's riding, Ezra Levant, also received a lot of money to give up his seat to the Prime Minister himself. This government does not hesitate to flout election laws, and it could not care less about respect. Words fail me—"


My first reaction was delight, to learn that I had, in fact, been a "former member of Parliament". My second response was embarrassment, because I don't think I showed up even for a single vote.

My third reaction was anger that I was accused of "suspicious activity" and being part of a plan to "flout election laws". That's pretty clear: Raymonde Folco is accusing me of taking part in an illegal act.

Except that it's not true. Not only was I never an MP, but I never received -- nor was I even offered -- any compensation for stepping aside as the Canadian Alliance candidate for Stephen Harper. Of course, I would have liked to have been compensated for my election expenses to that point, though that would hardly have counted as "suspicious" and certainly wouldn't have "flouted election laws". But my wishes didn't happen.

Being called a law-breaker is about the worst defamation you could say about someone, especially a lawyer like me. It's a complete fabrication, factually inaccurate and completely unfair. But, because it was uttered in the House of Commons, it is protected by "absolute privilege". Ms. Folco is immune to a lawsuit.

Today my lawyers fired off this letter to her. And, until she repeats her accusations outside of Parliament, the letter is all that can be done, legally. I'm relying on Ms. Folco's title as an "honourable member" of the House of Commons to correct the record voluntarily -- and to do so with the same conspicuousness with which she first blighted the record.

But given the zeal of the Liberals to trump up the Cadman claims into something real, I'm not holding my breath that they're going to admit to any factual errors or unethical charges right now amongst their barrage of accusations.


Artical by EZ-Company.
Ezra Levant


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:29 pm
 


I had Tom Flanagan as a poli-sci professor back in 1989. Trust me, having met the man face-to-face, he's way too dry to behave like Karl Rove or Warren Kinsella would.





PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:45 pm
 


I read this item this morning.


http://www.bloggingcanadians.ca/Conserv ... an_Affair/


"Finally - let's try to remember the political climate back in May of 2005. On May 17 (the same day Mr. Cadman was allegedly approached by the Conservatives), Belinda Stronach crossed the floor to the Liberals. Few days after the vote, Gurmant Grewal claimed that he too was approached by a few senior Liberal MPs; that they were offering him a cabinet position and a Senate appointment for his wife, trying to persuade him to cross the floor. All that was widely discussed in the Parliament and in the media. So why would Mr. Cadman decide not only to keep silent about the offer he allegedly received from the Conservatives, but also deny the existence of such offer in the interview he gave right after the confidence vote?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:19 pm
 


dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
You know, even this death bed confession thing sounds a bit convoluted. If you're dying and you have your family gathered around I highly doubt you're going to break into some crap over how you were offered a bribe. This whole thing sounds pretty screwed up.



more like it sounds kinda made up at the last minute , also came out the sameday this relative said she should run as an independent . and also why did she just decide to mention this death bed story now ? after all these years and can she even prove it really happened . i don't think she has any proof at all .

i call bullshit and ask for these people to come up with some real evidence and not stories that can never be proven.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:29 pm
 


mtbr mtbr:
I read this item this morning.


http://www.bloggingcanadians.ca/Conserv ... an_Affair/


"Finally - let's try to remember the political climate back in May of 2005. On May 17 (the same day Mr. Cadman was allegedly approached by the Conservatives), Belinda Stronach crossed the floor to the Liberals. Few days after the vote, Gurmant Grewal claimed that he too was approached by a few senior Liberal MPs; that they were offering him a cabinet position and a Senate appointment for his wife, trying to persuade him to cross the floor. All that was widely discussed in the Parliament and in the media. So why would Mr. Cadman decide not only to keep silent about the offer he allegedly received from the Conservatives, but also deny the existence of such offer in the interview he gave right after the confidence vote?



that is a very good point , mean he had chances to come forward if something had happened , it just doesn't make sense as to why his relatives would now come forward especially since donna is a cpc candidate. its avery weird situation , maybe one of the weirdest politics has seen in years . and i suspect it will be a while until anything this usual happens again.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:10 pm
 


ryan29 ryan29:
Benoit Benoit:
- We can put Doug Finley and Tom Flanagan to the polygraph.

- Mr. Cadman said he was not bribed by Harper himself.

- Liberals bribing doesn’t make disappear the Conservatives bribing.


could also give donna cadman a lie detector test to see if she is telling the truth


It's a deal!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:00 am
 


Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
Benoit Benoit:
- We can put Doug Finley and Tom Flanagan to the polygraph.

- Mr. Cadman said he was not bribed by Harper himself.

- Liberals bribing doesn’t make disappear the Conservatives bribing.


could also give donna cadman a lie detector test to see if she is telling the truth


It's a deal!


but it should really be up to her to prove these claims , mean what insuarnce company was she claiming involved ? where is the paper work or any voice evidence offering him this policy ? i don't think there is any .

and of course the big question why did he not say anything about this to the press before his death ?

this case has to many unanswered questions and if there not answered rcmp or judge will most certainly throw it out due to lack of evidence . i couldn't see how they could procede with an investigation based of this.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:18 am
 


ryan29 ryan29:
but it should really be up to her to prove these claims , mean what insuarnce company was she claiming involved ? where is the paper work or any voice evidence offering him this policy ? i don't think there is any .

and of course the big question why did he not say anything about this to the press before his death ?


- Insurance sellers have enough bad reputation, don't add to it.

- Because journalists haven't asked precisely.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:46 am
 


Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
but it should really be up to her to prove these claims , mean what insuarnce company was she claiming involved ? where is the paper work or any voice evidence offering him this policy ? i don't think there is any .

and of course the big question why did he not say anything about this to the press before his death ?


- Insurance sellers have enough bad reputation, don't add to it.

- Because journalists haven't asked precisely.


but can't deny that many insurance experts have been quoted as saying such a policy would be impossible to get , some even said to give one out they would of had to pay full amount of 1 million dollars since he was terminally ill . does this sound like something they would of done before an election when they needed ever dollar for a campaign . plus the risk involved is too high i would think , mean he could of just went to the media then if he wanted to do , but he didn't and said nothign like this was offered .


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:57 am
 


ryan29 ryan29:
Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
but it should really be up to her to prove these claims , mean what insuarnce company was she claiming involved ? where is the paper work or any voice evidence offering him this policy ? i don't think there is any .

and of course the big question why did he not say anything about this to the press before his death ?


- Insurance sellers have enough bad reputation, don't add to it.

- Because journalists haven't asked precisely.


but can't deny that many insurance experts have been quoted as saying such a policy would be impossible to get , some even said to give one out they would of had to pay full amount of 1 million dollars since he was terminally ill . does this sound like something they would of done before an election when they needed ever dollar for a campaign . plus the risk involved is too high i would think , mean he could of just went to the media then if he wanted to do , but he didn't and said nothign like this was offered .


To me, Mr. Cadman said quite clearly June 12, 2005 he was offered bribes.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:30 am
 


Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
but it should really be up to her to prove these claims , mean what insuarnce company was she claiming involved ? where is the paper work or any voice evidence offering him this policy ? i don't think there is any .

and of course the big question why did he not say anything about this to the press before his death ?


- Insurance sellers have enough bad reputation, don't add to it.

- Because journalists haven't asked precisely.


but can't deny that many insurance experts have been quoted as saying such a policy would be impossible to get , some even said to give one out they would of had to pay full amount of 1 million dollars since he was terminally ill . does this sound like something they would of done before an election when they needed ever dollar for a campaign . plus the risk involved is too high i would think , mean he could of just went to the media then if he wanted to do , but he didn't and said nothign like this was offered .


To me, Mr. Cadman said quite clearly June 12, 2005 he was offered bribes.


How can that be a bribe, when the offer comes from a party that you once belong to?
Maybe the Conservatives ask him if he wanted to come back? Can't see that as a bribe?
And if he did come back, the Liberals wouldn't be able to say anything.
Just think they're try anything to get into the lime lite , even if it means digging up the dead , which is a new low for the Liberals!!

Sammy [popcorn]


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:44 am
 


mtbr mtbr:
I read this item this morning.


http://www.bloggingcanadians.ca/Conserv ... an_Affair/


"Finally - let's try to remember the political climate back in May of 2005. On May 17 (the same day Mr. Cadman was allegedly approached by the Conservatives), Belinda Stronach crossed the floor to the Liberals. Few days after the vote, Gurmant Grewal claimed that he too was approached by a few senior Liberal MPs; that they were offering him a cabinet position and a Senate appointment for his wife, trying to persuade him to cross the floor. All that was widely discussed in the Parliament and in the media. So why would Mr. Cadman decide not only to keep silent about the offer he allegedly received from the Conservatives, but also deny the existence of such offer in the interview he gave right after the confidence vote?



Right..... Still l like to know why Cadmans' wife made these statements, if false she to can be in trouble. Don't think Mr.Harper will be sign her papers, he better watch his back , it's seem s like a another Belinda!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:49 am
 


CanadianGigolo CanadianGigolo:
Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
Benoit Benoit:
ryan29 ryan29:
but it should really be up to her to prove these claims , mean what insuarnce company was she claiming involved ? where is the paper work or any voice evidence offering him this policy ? i don't think there is any .

and of course the big question why did he not say anything about this to the press before his death ?


- Insurance sellers have enough bad reputation, don't add to it.

- Because journalists haven't asked precisely.


but can't deny that many insurance experts have been quoted as saying such a policy would be impossible to get , some even said to give one out they would of had to pay full amount of 1 million dollars since he was terminally ill . does this sound like something they would of done before an election when they needed ever dollar for a campaign . plus the risk involved is too high i would think , mean he could of just went to the media then if he wanted to do , but he didn't and said nothign like this was offered .


To me, Mr. Cadman said quite clearly June 12, 2005 he was offered bribes.


How can that be a bribe, when the offer comes from a party that you once belong to?
Maybe the Conservatives ask him if he wanted to come back? Can't see that as a bribe?
And if he did come back, the Liberals wouldn't be able to say anything.
Just think they're try anything to get into the lime lite , even if it means digging up the dead , which is a new low for the Liberals!!

Sammy [popcorn]


A new low for the Liberals?

$1:
"To me, it really crossed the line. The only possible way they could have swayed him was to go after the family in a sense, to have them taken care of," said Cadman. "My first reaction was I was hurt, very hurt, and I started crying."


It wasn't the Liberals dangling a plum reward in front of him.





PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:51 am
 


Sounds like Donna is starting to change her song or is at least stating she believes Harper knew nothing about these allegations of a life insurance policy.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:59 am
 


CanadianGigolo CanadianGigolo:
mtbr mtbr:
I read this item this morning.


http://www.bloggingcanadians.ca/Conserv ... an_Affair/


"Finally - let's try to remember the political climate back in May of 2005. On May 17 (the same day Mr. Cadman was allegedly approached by the Conservatives), Belinda Stronach crossed the floor to the Liberals. Few days after the vote, Gurmant Grewal claimed that he too was approached by a few senior Liberal MPs; that they were offering him a cabinet position and a Senate appointment for his wife, trying to persuade him to cross the floor. All that was widely discussed in the Parliament and in the media. So why would Mr. Cadman decide not only to keep silent about the offer he allegedly received from the Conservatives, but also deny the existence of such offer in the interview he gave right after the confidence vote?



Right..... Still l like to know why Cadmans' wife made these statements, if false she to can be in trouble. Don't think Mr.Harper will be sign her papers, he better watch his back , it's seem s like a another Belinda!



p.s. after reading the article on the othe thread
I take back my statement, if Ms. Cadman stick by her own words'.

quote" He looked me straight in the eyes and told me he had no knowledge of an insurance policy offer.{meaning Mr. Harper} I knew he was telling me the truth; I could see it in his eyes," Dona Cadman said in the statement released Monday.

"He said, yes he'd had some discussions with two individuals about asking Chuck to rejoin the party, but he'd told them they were wasting their time trying to convince Chuck.

P.S. This was my point if he was ask to rejoin the party it's not a bribe!
At the same time I believe there was offer, but not as stated.
Sammy


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