[BartSimpson]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Perhaps they consider it part and parcel to their country.

So it's okay to invade another country and colonize it so long as you think you're entitled to it?

Good, then since your answer works for China you can apply it to the USA, too.

By the way, hope you like that new flag we're going to hoist over Ottawa next week.

[BartSimpson]

I received a lovely pm with regards to responding to Derby in this topic and, with the permission of the author, I'm reposting it here anonymously.

$1:

I wouldn't give that crazy fuck the shit off the bottom of my boot if his face was the only scraper around. This nut ball likely met a Chinese guy that works at his local Thai restaurant...so that qualifies him as an expert on all things Chinese.

And with that, I bid everyone and all a Happy and Glorious Weekend!

[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Perhaps they consider it part and parcel to their country.

So it's okay to invade another country and colonize it so long as you think you're entitled to it?

Good, then since your answer works for China you can apply it to the USA, too.

By the way, hope you like that new flag we're going to hoist over Ottawa next week.

Entirely what you think is OK for Israel, the US, and anybody not Muslim seeking to take Muslim land "back".

Get that Communist/China flag ready because they don't need to invade the US. They bought it fair & square!

[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I received a lovely pm with regards to responding to Derby in this topic and, with the permission of the author, I'm reposting it here anonymously.

$1:

I wouldn't give that crazy fuck the shit off the bottom of my boot if his face was the only scraper around. This nut ball likely met a Chinese guy that works at his local Thai restaurant...so that qualifies him as an expert on all things Chinese.

And with that, I bid everyone and all a Happy and Glorious Weekend!

Like I care what (the person in question) says about me. The fact I work with Chinese people who hold a very different view is lost on him. You should read what others write about you.

I still like you (kinda) though.

[DanSC]

DerbyX DerbyX:

How did the US acquire just about all of its land? Conquering? Stealing?

Duh. Just like Canada: Our Home on Native Land. The USA throughout its history has definitely not been an outwardly peaceful nation; no one denies that.

[DerbyX]

DanSC DanSC:

DerbyX DerbyX:

How did the US acquire just about all of its land? Conquering? Stealing?

Duh. Just like Canada: Our Home on Native Land. The USA throughout its history has definitely not been an outwardly peaceful nation; no one denies that.

Did you annex Hawaii? What was your legal authority to do that?

[Wada]

Duh! NOT like Canada! We signed treaties that later generations were loathe to honor.

[DanSC]

DerbyX DerbyX:

DanSC DanSC:

DerbyX DerbyX:

How did the US acquire just about all of its land? Conquering? Stealing?

Duh. Just like Canada: Our Home on Native Land. The USA throughout its history has definitely not been an outwardly peaceful nation; no one denies that.

Did you annex Hawaii? What was your legal authority to do that?

The legal authority came from the government of the Republic of Hawaii in 1898, which overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1893.

[DanSC]

Wada Wada:

Duh! NOT like Canada! We signed treaties that later generations were loathe to honor.

Is that why Harper had to apologize in 2008 about the boarding schools the Natives were forced into?

[DerbyX]

DanSC DanSC:

The legal authority came from the government of the Republic of Hawaii in 1898, which overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1893.

Right.

No US intervention in the complete theft of the land.

[Wada]

What might Obama apologize for as compared to?

[DanSC]

DerbyX DerbyX:

DanSC DanSC:

The legal authority came from the government of the Republic of Hawaii in 1898, which overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1893.

Right.

No US intervention in the complete theft of the land.

You didn't ask about that; the US heavily intervened. Grover Cleveland's July 1893 report on the overthrow explained as much in an extremely critical way. He even pushed the Republic to reinstate the monarchy, but the republic would have none of it. Once McKinley succeeded Cleveland, the US government again considered annexation, and the republic was all to happy to agree.

[DerbyX]

DanSC DanSC:

You didn't ask about that; the US heavily intervened. Grover Cleveland's July 1893 report on the overthrow explained as much in an extremely critical way. He even pushed the Republic to reinstate the monarchy, but the republic would have none of it. Once McKinley succeeded Cleveland, the US government again considered annexation, and the republic was all to happy to agree.

So what?

$1:

In 1893, a small group of sugar and pineapple-growing businessmen, aided by the American minister to Hawaii and backed by heavily armed U.S. soldiers and marines, deposed Hawaii's queen. Subsequently, they imprisoned the queen and seized 1.75 million acres of crown land and conspired to annex the islands to the United States.

On January 17, 1893, the conspirators announced the overthrow of the queen's government. To avoid bloodshed, Queen Lydia Kamakaeha Liliuokalani yielded her sovereignty and called upon the U.S. government "to undo the actions of its representatives." The U.S. government refused to help her regain her throne. When she died in 1917, Hawaii was an American territory. In 1959, Hawaii became the 50th state after a plebiscite in which 90 percent of the islanders supported statehood.

The businessmen who conspired to overthrow the queen claimed that they were overthrowing a corrupt, dissolute regime in order of advance democratic principles. They also argued that a Western power was likely to acquire the islands. Hawaii had the finest harbor in the mid-Pacific and was viewed as a strategically valuable coaling station and naval base. In 1851, King Kamehameha III had secretly asked the United States to annex Hawaii, but Secretary of State Daniel Webster declined, saying "No power ought to take possession of the islands as a conquest...or colonization." But later monarchs wanted to maintain Hawaii's independence. The native population proved to be vulnerable to western diseases, including cholera, smallpox, and leprosy. By 1891, native Hawaii's were an ethnic minority on the islands.

After the bloodless 1893 revolution, the American businessmen lobbied President Benjamin Harrison and Congress to annex the Hawaiian Islands. In his last month in office, Harrison sent an annexation treaty to the Senate for confirmation, but the new president, Grover Cleveland, withdrew the treaty "for the purpose of re-examination." He also received Queen Liliuokalani and replaced the American stars and stripes in Honolulu with the Hawaiian flag.

Cleveland also ordered a study of the Hawaiian revolution. The inquiry concluded that the American minister to Hawaii had conspired with the businessmen to overthrow the queen, and that the coup would have failed "but for the landing of the United States forces upon false pretexts respecting the dangers to life and property." Looking back on the Hawaii takeover, President Cleveland later wrote that "the provisional government owes its existence to an armed invasion by the United States. By an act of war...a substantial wrong has been done."

President Cleveland's recommendation that the monarchy be restored was rejected by Congress. The House of Representatives voted to censure the U.S. minister to Hawaii and adopted a resolution opposing annexation. But Congress did not act to restore the monarchy. In 1894, Sanford Dole, who was beginning his pineapple business, declared himself president of the Republic of Hawaii without a popular vote. The new government found the queen guilty of treason and sentenced her to five years of hard labor and a $5,000 fine. While the sentence of hard labor was not carried out, the queen was placed under house arrest.

The Republican Party platform in the presidential election of 1896 called for the annexation of Hawaii. Petitions for a popular vote in Hawaii were ignored. Fearing that he lacked two-thirds support for annexation in the Senate, the new Republican president, William McKinley, called for a joint resolution of Congress (the same way that the United States had acquired Texas). With the country aroused by the Spanish American War and political leaders fearful that the islands might be annexed by Japan, the joint resolution easily passed Congress. Hawaii officially became a U.S. territory in 1900.

On one hand you decry other governments who annex land but then when it is proven that your country did the same you have all kinds of excuses.

Do you guys ACTUALLY believe that the rest of the world should have to accept your excuses when you do exactly what you decry in other countries?

We have a word for that .... hypocrisy.

[DanSC]

Wada Wada:

What might Obama apologize for as compared to?

Lots of things; slavery, conquest of the Natives, provoking the Mexican Army into shooting soldiers standing in the Rio Grande to start the Mexican-American war, Jim Crow, intervening in the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, denying the Filipino's independence after the Spanish-American War, child labor during the industrial revolution, installing the Shah in Iran, overthrowing the freely-elected government in Guatemala, propping up regimes in Bahrain and Egypt, arming the Mujahideen, "accidentally" sending a cruise missile into the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, dropping two atomic bombs on Japan, forcefully removing Natives to test a hydrogen bomb on the Bikini Atoll, the Tuskegee Experiments, murder of women and children in Vietnam, Abu Grahib, kill teams in Afghanistan, internment of Japanese Americans, internment of Italian Americans, internment of German Americans, extremely racist immigration policies, and the softwood tariff spat.

[DanSC]

DerbyX DerbyX:

On one hand you decry other governments who annex land but then when it is proven that your country did the same you have all kinds of excuses.

It was just proven now? You asked what happened, and I told you. No excuses, just facts. The interventionists and President McKinley acted poorly while President Cleveland acted more admirably.

$1:

We have a word for that .... hypocrisy.

[pissing match] I'm surprised a nation still using the structure of the British Empire has such a word.[/pissing match]