[EyeBrock]

Nah, we could be like our Neville Chamberlain and ignore the facists. It always works out well ignoring bullies and thugs.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

I agree, Sudan is an internal, ethnic, racial and religous problem.

But aren't we supposed to object to governments killing their own civilians ?

I also fully agree on that. But we continue to sit in our comfortable arm chairs objecting. The UN, US, and NATO will not do anything about it because it doesn't serve any basic interests.

If we started running around the world trying to stamp out every corrupt regime, how long before we go bankrupt? Who wants to send their children to Sudan to be shot at by Janjaweed? By Arabs in Palestine? By Iraqis, by Iranians? When does it end?

Point being this is an internal conflict between two ethno-religious groups. Our governments have already picked their side long ago, but like all arm chair generals, I beleive nothing else will be done on our end.

The OP posted topic about Palestinians protesting because Canada is not taking action. Good, it doesn't need to.

The Palestinians are more than welcome to send money back home. I know Sri Lankans in Toronto who send money back to the tamil tigers. They don't protest, they put their money where their mouth is.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

Nah, we could be like our Neville Chamberlain and ignore the facists. It always works out well ignoring bullies and thugs.

The only reason why England/France went to war with Germany after the Polish invasion was because they didn't want to see a German expansion eastward. They did not want Germany to become a European superpower and a territorial giant. They felt their dominance of Europe and long term safety threatened. It had nothing to do with a honorable cause that so many historians have us beleive. It had nothing to do with saving jews. Or Poles.

[EyeBrock]

No, it had to do with treaty obligations. Nobody wanted the 2nd World War except Hitler. The UK had already told Poland that it would come to it's aid. Once the Nazi's invaded there was little to do besides run away or fight.

It has nothing to do with all the other stuff you quoted. It was simple international politics and a nasty result of inequitable peace imposed by the Treaty of Versailles from 1919. This stuff has been well discussed by historians.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

No, it had to do with treaty obligations. Nobody wanted the 2nd World War except Hitler. The UK had already told Poland that it would come to it's aid. Once the Nazi's invaded there was little to do besides run away or fight.

It has nothing to do with all the other stuff you quoted. It was simple international politics and a nasty result of inequitable peace imposed by the Treaty of Versailles from 1919. This stuff has been well discussed by historians.

The existance of that treaty was for the reasons quoted.

[martin14]

Sock, I gotta ask..

what makes you think the one state idea could actually work ?

[CommanderSock]

And the fact that you mentioned Chamberlain shows you are placing this internal strife as some kind of international obligation. It is not. Nobody is obliged to help the Israelis nor Palestinians. Palestine is not Nazi Germany, and Israel is not Poland/Europe. They are effectively one country with two governments.

Nobody is rushing to help either. The US will continue to pour money into Israel, and Hezbollah and individual donors will continue to send money to Palestine/Hamas. The two sides will remain in deadlock. Rockets will keep being fired @ Israel, and Israelis will respond with air strikes and ground operations. Repeat and etc etc.

This is for them to sort out.

[Pimpbrewski]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Both entities

Nope, Palestinians provoked by lauching rockets 1st. Then they bitch about it, along with the entire muslim world, when there is retaliation. Any nation has a right to defend itself, it's that simple.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

The Palestinians are more than welcome to send money back home.

No, immigrants should not come to Canada to send everything back to the ''homeland''. They should simply stay there. As for these protesters, same thing, if they so strongly support their own ''cause'' then it's their problem and not ours.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

Sock, I gotta ask..

what makes you think the one state idea could actually work ?

To be honest, I don't know if it will. It is a suggestion that has been floated around for some time. Perhaps the same way that South Africa's apertheid fell, and the black (replace with arabs) have voting power within the nation. Effectively, all people vote. One government, one army, unity, multiple ethnic groups etc. Those who don't like it can leave, (Just like many did with RSA). Again, I'm not sure if either side would swallow their pride for a single state solution. But there are many moderate Israelis and Palestinians, a single state idea might just work.

Let's not forget Palestine itself is divided into several ethnic and religious groups. Arab muslims and Orthodox Christians being the 2 biggest.

[CommanderSock]

Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Both entities

Nope, Palestinians provoked by lauching rockets 1st. Then they bitch about it, along with the entire muslim world, when there is retaliation. Any nation has a right to defend itself, it's that simple.

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

The Palestinians are more than welcome to send money back home.

No, immigrants should not come to Canada to send everything back to the ''homeland''. They should simply stay there. As for these protesters, same thing, if they so strongly support their own ''cause'' then it's their problem and not ours.

You are right. In a perfect world they would not send money back. But both sides are guilty. Many Israelis send money back home, who are we to judge?

When NATO bombed Serbia in 1999, there were many Serbian protesters doing the same thing. It is natural that this would happen. China and Tibet is another example. In a hypothetical scenario if a higher power bombed Britain tommorrow would you not sympathize for Brits who protest outside the embassy?

[martin14]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

$1:

Sock, I gotta ask..

what makes you think the one state idea could actually work ?

To be honest, I don't know if it will. It is a suggestion that has been floated around for some time. Perhaps the same way that South Africa's apertheid fell, and the black (replace with arabs) have voting power within the nation. Effectively, all people vote. One government, one army, unity, multiple ethnic groups etc. Those who don't like it can leave, (Just like many did with RSA). Again, I'm not sure if either side would swallow their pride for a single state solution. But there are many moderate Israelis and Palestinians, a single state idea might just work.

Let's not forget Palestine itself is divided into several ethnic and religious groups. Arab muslims and Orthodox Christians being the 2 biggest.

ok, thanks.
I've never thought a one state would work for one minute,
you even gave reasons in another thread.
Racism, religous divide, language, the huge demographic change,
economic divisons,
Israel losing its "Jewish" state idea, in fact the Jews
would become a minority if all the Palestinians came back..

not to mention the unbeleivable arguments over who owned what land 60
years ago.. just makes it all a complete non starter for me.

[EyeBrock]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

And the fact that you mentioned Chamberlain shows you are placing this internal strife as some kind of international obligation. It is not. Nobody is obliged to help the Israelis nor Palestinians. Palestine is not Nazi Germany, and Israel is not Poland/Europe. They are effectively one country with two governments.

Nobody is rushing to help either. The US will continue to pour money into Israel, and Hezbollah and individual donors will continue to send money to Palestine/Hamas. The two sides will remain in deadlock. Rockets will keep being fired @ Israel, and Israelis will respond with air strikes and ground operations. Repeat and etc etc.

This is for them to sort out.

Yes but ignoring history in this is to close your eyes on certain factors. The Nazi's tried to exterminate the Jews. Europe as a whole was less than jolly with the Jews for centuries. The remaining Jews left Europe to set up a Jewish state in their biblical homeland. This history has a bearing on what is going on now.

Don't expect the Jews to lay down and surrender in the face of an Arab world that wants to exterminate them.

[CommanderSock]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Don't expect the Jews to lay down and surrender in the face of an Arab world that wants to exterminate them.

I have abselutely no such expectations. I expect Israelis to fight. And by the looks of things they are.

I was responding @ OP that Palestinians can protest all they want, but its up to them to put their money where their mouths are.

[EyeBrock]

I'll have that then.

[martin14]

I imagine the next move will come (or not) from Hezbollah,