[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Paid for extracurricular activities? When. Where? I had better apply for my back pay then.

Salaried employee, right? Most school activities during my school years were right after school and some during school...like track and field.

We're often told that a teacher's day isn't done at 3:15-3:30 so we can fairly assume that the day should run to 4:30-5pm for most teachers which includes the time where a lot of those activities take place....even better, it happens right in the workplace.

While you may be 'volunteering' your time, that time is being paid for by the taxpayer and isn't coming out of your pocket.

Add to that, you guys only work ~10 months of the year and have the flexibility to leave at 3-3:30 if you desire.

Teachers are well paid and I have no problem with that, but the private sector is tired of teachers and the "poor us" attitude considering their job, pay, vacation, benefits and pension.

Extracurriculars are not paid work. You can argue it all you want but it's just not. If it was than some teachers would be paid more than others based on the amount of extracurriculars they do. They are not, they are paid according to level of education and experience. If a teacher does no extracurriculars , which happens with a few, than there is no reduction in pay. If an extracurricular is happening in the school gym than you, the tax payer, are paying for the building but not the volunteer.

About the 3:30 leaving, if a teacher leaves then, then they have to take their work home with them. It's still work.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Extracurriculars are not paid work. You can argue it all you want but it's just not. If it was than some teachers would be paid more than others based on the amount of extracurriculars they do. They are not, they are paid according to level of education and experience. If a teacher does no extracurriculars , which happens with a few, than there is no reduction in pay. If an extracurricular is happening in the school gym than you, the tax payer, are paying for the building but not the volunteer.

About the 3:30 leaving, if a teacher leaves then, then they have to take their work home with them. It's still work.

If they happen during the hours of 9-5, Monday thru Friday, it's paid work.

If not, you're telling me that teachers hours are in fact 9am-3pm with a 1 hour lunch for a total of 5 hours.

Not bad! Working 5 hour days for 10 months of the year and collecting 80k/year.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Extracurriculars are not paid work. You can argue it all you want but it's just not. If it was than some teachers would be paid more than others based on the amount of extracurriculars they do. They are not, they are paid according to level of education and experience. If a teacher does no extracurriculars , which happens with a few, than there is no reduction in pay. If an extracurricular is happening in the school gym than you, the tax payer, are paying for the building but not the volunteer.

About the 3:30 leaving, if a teacher leaves then, then they have to take their work home with them. It's still work.

If they happen during the hours of 9-5, Monday thru Friday, it's paid work.

If not, you're telling me that teachers hours are in fact 9am-3pm with a 1 hour lunch for a total of 5 hours.

Not bad! Working 5 hour days for 10 months of the year and collecting 80k/year.

Teachers are paid to work during school hours. As PA pointed out they are also paid to do marking, lesson planning, administration stuff, reports and other stuff . That's part of the job. The kids are free to go at 3:30 and need to be there at 9:00. Teachers are free to go at the same hours but are paid to get the "other stuff" done when they can; after school, lunch, breaks when they are not on supervision. Going to the gym to coach, or any other non-contractual activity is voluntary. Myself, I usually did my contractual stuff that didn't involve directly teaching in the evenings (at least two hours) and on Sunday ( most of the day.)

You can skoff all you like, but that's the way it was.

[ShepherdsDog]

It's always been my understanding that the work done at home was taken into consideration for the salary you receive. It was understood that you did several hours of work at home or on weekends, and that was factored into the pay rate/pay scale. I've made more, but we're not hurting, as both my wife and I have graduate degrees....she's topped out on the pay scale, and the only way to get higher pay is to go into administration....she's done that, and doesn't enjoy it.

As for the 9 - 3 hours, that's an outright crock of shit. I don't know any teacher that shows up at 9 and leaves at 3...to begin with the official school day begins at 8:30 with a staff meeting, prior to this you get your photocopying done and any materials needed for the day. Students aren't dismissed until 4 PM here....don't know about Ontario. From 4 to 4:30 teachers are expected to be around if a parent wishes to speak to them. This time is often used to clean the classroom, as janitorial staff do SFA here, if they even show up at all.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Going to the gym to coach, or any other non-contractual activity is voluntary.

True. But it's also paid time.

fifeboy fifeboy:

As PA pointed out they are also paid to do marking, lesson planning, administration stuff, reports and other stuff

So the BC teachers aren't complying with their contract, if that's the case.

It appears that administrative duties, marking or exam supervision aren't part of the workday, nor is supervision of kids during recess as those are things that the teachers stopped doing in BC.

If supervising the kids during recess isn't part of the contract, that brings the actual workday down to 4.5 hours for an elementary school teacher.

Any gains that might have been made during this dispute will be lost during the strike. 3 days in and the strike fund is close to empty and food banks are opening up to feed the teachers.

3 days in and teachers are looking to food banks?

[OnTheIce]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

As for the 9 - 3 hours, that's an outright crock of shit. I don't know any teacher that shows up at 9 and leaves at 3...to begin with the official school day begins at 8:30 with a staff meeting, prior to this you get your photocopying done and any materials needed for the day.

Back in high school, some of the teachers would beat us to our cars heading home for the day.

I live right beside a elementary school and there are often 3-4 cars left at 3:45pm. Our school is out at 3:25. 2 of those cars are the Principal and the custodian and the other two are teachers.

What's a crock of shit is trying to tell us that this doesn't happen when the vast majority of teachers in my school years and what I experience now leave right after school far more often than they stay late.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Going to the gym to coach, or any other non-contractual activity is voluntary.

True. But it's also paid time.

fifeboy fifeboy:

As PA pointed out they are also paid to do marking, lesson planning, administration stuff, reports and other stuff

So the BC teachers aren't complying with their contract, if that's the case.

It appears that administrative duties, marking or exam supervision aren't part of the workday, nor is supervision of kids during recess as those are things that the teachers stopped doing in BC.

If supervising the kids during recess isn't part of the contract, that brings the actual workday down to 4.5 hours for an elementary school teacher.

Any gains that might have been made during this dispute will be lost during the strike. 3 days in and the strike fund is close to empty and food banks are opening up to feed the teachers. anecdotal

3 days in and teachers are looking to food banks?

How is it paid time? And the BC teachers are on strike or a lockout, I don't know which. And recess super is, as far as I know, part of the contract. It's assigned , nobody is asked if they want to do it . Extracurriculars are not assigned. We went into the VP and asked something like: "has someone taken basketball and science club yet ?" If not you got to volunteer. No added pay, just a bunch of mostly enjoyable but sometimes frustrating hours.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

How is it paid time? And the BC teachers are on strike or a lockout, I don't know which. And recess super is, as far as I know, part of the contract. It's assigned , nobody is asked if they want to do it . Extracurriculars are not assigned. We went into the VP and asked something like: "has someone taken basketball and science club yet ?" If not you got to volunteer. No added pay, just a bunch of mostly enjoyable but sometimes frustrating hours.

If you're doing it between the hours of 8-5, it's paid time. Unless you're telling me that a teacher's day ends at 3:30 and anything after that is done out of the goodness of your heart.

That's the time you're paid to be at school teaching/marking, etc. If you're doing something other than teaching...like taking a dump, you're still getting paid.

So if you're doing basketball from 3:30-4:30, you're still on the public dime.

The BC teachers are on a strike now, but before that, they stopped supervising recess, marking and some other admin stuff as part of their "job action". If supervising recess is part of the contract, they breached that contract.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

How is it paid time? And the BC teachers are on strike or a lockout, I don't know which. And recess super is, as far as I know, part of the contract. It's assigned , nobody is asked if they want to do it . Extracurriculars are not assigned. We went into the VP and asked something like: "has someone taken basketball and science club yet ?" If not you got to volunteer. No added pay, just a bunch of mostly enjoyable but sometimes frustrating hours.

If you're doing it between the hours of 8-5, it's paid time. Unless you're telling me that a teacher's day ends at 3:30 and anything after that is done out of the goodness of your heart.

That's the time you're paid to be at school teaching/marking, etc. If you're doing something other than teaching...like taking a dump, you're still getting paid.

So if you're doing basketball from 3:30-4:30, you're still on the public dime.

The BC teachers are on a strike now, but before that, they stopped supervising recess, marking and some other admin stuff as part of their "job action". If supervising recess is part of the contract, they breached that contract.

No, the government says during school hours and those differ from school to school. It's not 8-5! It's school hours! Those are the times one is required to be there . There is no extra pay for marking papers in the evening or working on Sunday, which if you are doing stuff directly related to your classroom, is still required. If you don't do this stuff than you can't be ready for class. However , there is no requirement to coach softball, even if it's at 4:50 PM.

And I have never been in a school where extracurriculars were done during school hours.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

No, the government says during school hours and those differ from school to school. It's not 8-5! It's school hours! Those are the times one is required to be there . There is no extra pay for marking papers in the evening or working on Sunday, which if you are doing stuff directly related to your classroom, is still required. If you don't do this stuff than you can't be ready for class. However , there is no requirement to coach softball, even if it's at 4:50 PM.

And I have never been in a school where extracurriculars were done during school hours.

So technically, you stop getting paid at the end of the school day, whether it be 3pm, 3:30pm or 4pm, correct?

Never been in a school with extra curriculars during the day? That's where the majority take place these days. Our school runs clubs during recess or lunch and other events like track are done during the day.

[fifeboy]

Icy, I really think it's time to get your Big Boy pants on and do something more than bitch about teachers. Start a movement to make them work 9 - 5 five days a week . Plus extracurriculars and anything else you feel is necessary . You can start by firing all and rehiring people who won't put as much burden on the tax payer. I am sure there are lots of people out there willing to teach today's children and teens. Line them up and march on Queens Park. As you and all the other taxpayers will be doing all the after school stuff the staff can be paid less ( perhaps min. wage.) Be sure to dismiss them if they fail to do what you want (teach what the taxpayers deem important) but also will pass every kid of loudmouth parents who want their underachieving child passed. I am sure you will be successful. Just, please wait till my granddaughter is finished school, she is doing very nicely and I would really be mad if it were mucked up by this.

[wildrosegirl]

fifeboy fifeboy:

And I have never been in a school where extracurriculars were done during school hours.

It's the new thing.

Nothing is like it was when we were in school. Teachers aren't there until 4:30 or 5:00 every day (after arriving at 7:30 or 8:00), the school hours are WAY shorter, curriculums are no where near as challenging, and the workload is almost nil. Parents also don't parent near as much anymore, making it near impossible for the dedicated teachers out there to actually do their jobs, never mind do it effectively. The entire system has gone for shit.

Welcome to the coddled generation. Unfortunately, we're the ones that are going to pay dearly for it because those lazy little farts are the ones who will be in charge soon.

God help us.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Icy, I really think it's time to get your Big Boy pants on and do something more than bitch about teachers. Start a movement to make them work 9 - 5 five days a week . Plus extracurriculars and anything else you feel is necessary . You can start by firing all and rehiring people who won't put as much burden on the tax payer. I am sure there are lots of people out there willing to teach today's children and teens. Line them up and march on Queens Park. As you and all the other taxpayers will be doing all the after school stuff the staff can be paid less ( perhaps min. wage.) Be sure to dismiss them if they fail to do what you want (teach what the taxpayers deem important) but also will pass every kid of loudmouth parents who want their underachieving child passed. I am sure you will be successful. Just, please wait till my granddaughter is finished school, she is doing very nicely and I would really be mad if it were mucked up by this.

I can bitch all I want. I'm a taxpayer. One of the benefits. It's not my job to make change, it wouldn't pay quite as much as my current gig.

I'm glad to see that we've cleared up a few things. A teacher's work day is 4.5 hours long, runs less than 10 months in length and the rate of pay is almost double the average salary of Canadians along with benefits and a pension.

wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:

Nothing is like it was when we were in school. Teachers aren't there until 4:30 or 5:00 every day (after arriving at 7:30 or 8:00), the school hours are WAY shorter, curriculums are no where near as challenging, and the workload is almost nil. Parents also don't parent near as much anymore, making it near impossible for the dedicated teachers out there to actually do their jobs, never mind do it effectively. The entire system has gone for shit.

Less work, more pay. Smaller classes, less time at school. Hard times for teachers I tell ya!

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

No, the government says during school hours and those differ from school to school. It's not 8-5! It's school hours! Those are the times one is required to be there . There is no extra pay for marking papers in the evening or working on Sunday, which if you are doing stuff directly related to your classroom, is still required. If you don't do this stuff than you can't be ready for class. However , there is no requirement to coach softball, even if it's at 4:50 PM.

And I have never been in a school where extracurriculars were done during school hours.

So technically, you stop getting paid at the end of the school day, whether it be 3pm, 3:30pm or 4pm, correct?

Never been in a school with extra curriculars during the day? That's where the majority take place these days. Our school runs clubs during recess or lunch and other events like track are done during the day.

The school I taught in did extra curriculars after school. The gym was busy till 8 or 9 at night with various teams, younger students starting earlier and older later. Kids were expected to go out and play during recess, under staff supervision. As it was 1.5 hours to the nearest school a team was sometimes allowed to leave before 3:30 for a game, but not often. Track day (universal participation) WAS held during school days, but the team selected to go to districts or provincials practiced after school. Much like my granddaughters school here in Saskatoon. Except they practice for an hour before school.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Icy, I really think it's time to get your Big Boy pants on and do something more than bitch about teachers. Start a movement to make them work 9 - 5 five days a week . Plus extracurriculars and anything else you feel is necessary . You can start by firing all and rehiring people who won't put as much burden on the tax payer. I am sure there are lots of people out there willing to teach today's children and teens. Line them up and march on Queens Park. As you and all the other taxpayers will be doing all the after school stuff the staff can be paid less ( perhaps min. wage.) Be sure to dismiss them if they fail to do what you want (teach what the taxpayers deem important) but also will pass every kid of loudmouth parents who want their underachieving child passed. I am sure you will be successful. Just, please wait till my granddaughter is finished school, she is doing very nicely and I would really be mad if it were mucked up by this.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I can bitch all I want. I'm a taxpayer. One of the benefits. It's not my job to make change, it wouldn't pay quite as much as my current gig.

I'm glad to see that we've cleared up a few things. A teacher's work day is 4.5 hours long, runs less than 10 months in length and the rate of pay is almost double the average salary of Canadians along with benefits and a pension.

That sounds so impotent!

And yeah, I'm now on the pension.

Easy to complain constantly, eh! Makes it sound like your getting something done.