[Curtman]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

can't see how it could.....most of them have just as much or more European ancestry as they do native. What defines native culture? Most natives, except those who live in remote fly in can't speak any native tongues, nor do they follow a traditional lifestyle.
...
I think as it stands, if one of your parents is treaty but the other is non native you can claim, but if you marry non native, your kids are the last generation to be able to claim treaty status, unless they marry someone who is treaty status. That's how a friend who got his status, at age 20, explained it. Mind you, his grandfather was only part native and his grandmother was a full blood. His dad was white and so is his wife.

Métis, non-status Indian ruling could cost 'billions'

$1:

The recent federal court decision recognizing that Métis and non-status Indians in Canada are "Indians" under the Constitution Act could put a financial squeeze on the government, some experts say.

"Theoretically it's billions and billions of dollars," Robert Lovelace, a global development studies professor at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont., and retired Ardoch Algonquin First Nations chief, told CBC News.

Following Tuesday's ruling, the financial obligations of the government are still unclear. The court said it was not prepared to "make some general statement concerning the federal government's fiduciary duty."

Meanwhile, the government could appeal the ruling to the Supreme Court, meaning it could be years before any benefits are seen by Métis or non-status Indians.

"One of the arguments the Crown made in the case was that it's just going to provide a lot more litigation," Lovelace said.

But what the ruling could mean is that Métis and non-status Indians may be entitled to the same benefits as registered status Indians. Those benefits include some tax exemptions if living on a reserve, hunting and fishing rights, health benefits and some education subsidies.

"The federal government fought this ... with a vehemence because the stakes are really really high," said David McNab, a professor at Toronto's York University and Métis historian who has worked for almost 40 years on aboriginal land and treaty rights issues.

"The cost — that's the primary motivation for the federal and provincial government. They don't want to be hung up with the responsibility of costs that have been built up," McNab said.

For example, Lovelace said registered status Indians who work on reserves do not have to pay income tax on income earned on the reserve.

But for non-status people who don't have a reserve yet live within a traditional territory, it could be argued that they will no longer have to pay income tax, he said.

What could be more of a financial concern for the government are cases in which non-status Indians had paid sales tax in the past, now claim they should have been exempt from those taxes and be reimbursed, Lovelace said.

The government may also have a difficult case to make that it doesn't have the money to pay out all the benefits and claims.

"The courts have tended to accept a little bit of that argument but they're also forced to recognize what's legal," Lovelace said.

The ruling also means the government can no longer play the "divide and conquer" game between status Indians and non-status Indians and Métis, Lovelace said, adding that it could lead to a reconciliation among the groups since they are now all on equal ground.

However, he did acknowledge that there could be some tension as more groups will be sharing the government pie.

"There's always been concern that there's not enough money to go around, so if you add people to the pot, the meal's going to get thinner. I hope that can be overcome," Lovelace said.

The decision could also prompt a spike in Métis membership applications. Randy Ranville, a genealogist with the Métis Culture and Heritage Resource Centre in Winnipeg, told The Canadian Press the centre will likely be swamped following the court decision.

According to the 2006 census, nearly 400,000 Canadians self-identified as Métis, although only about half are officially recognized. Each province has a Métis organization which registers members and outlines its own requirements for status.

Typically, proof lies in an official family tree, accompanied by birth certificates and other documentation with ties to the historic Métis homeland.

It seems there will be a lot more people involved in this renegotiation if and when it happens.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

It's a stupid, obsolete concept.

Race is a reality, not a 'concept'.

No, it's not reality for most of us. For example, when you say you 'despise native people'. Most of us don't think "uh-oh here comes another one of them" as we meet someone who is different than us.

[fifeboy]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Surely, there is a better way than that.

Most likely there is, but any top down imposed system will most likely be a no go for most Treaty People.

[ShepherdsDog]

Anyone who claims they don't hold preconceived stereotypes, both positive and negative, is a liar. It's when we get to know others as individuals that we start seeing them as just another person. The person who goes around saying they have X number of friends who belong to other ethnic groups is a racist. They're keeping a tally and looking for a PC quota

[Freakinoldguy]

Curtman Curtman:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

If that is indeed the case then, it would explain why Theresa Spence with all her self taught legal wisdom, secret ancient life sustaining knowledge, exceptional accounting and animal tracking skills would think that any homo sapiens who look like her but live off reserve or out of her village are persona non gratis when it comes to basic democratic rights.

I only wonder if you consider yourself a biggot, or if you somehow think normal people think this way.

Nope, it only really appears when it pertains to Theresa Spence and her ilk. It's more akin to your love for our current PM than bigotry or even racism, sorry Homo Sapienism..

And for the record yes I do think it's normal to think this way especially when it comes to corruption, denying people their democratic rights, and a complete distain for your own people's needs and wants homo sapienism not withstanding.

So maybe it's like I said months ago, your vehement defense of the indefensible is nothing more than a smoke screen for pushing an agenda.

BTW I have the utmost respect for Chief Clarence Louie and leaders like him so, what does that make me?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Curtman Curtman:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

It's a stupid, obsolete concept.

Race is a reality, not a 'concept'.

No, it's not reality for most of us. For example, when you say you 'despise native people'. Most of us don't think "uh-oh here comes another one of them" as we meet someone who is different than us.

Really? Because "most of you" seem rather preoccupied with making sure everyone who isn't a White Canadian has a nice label identifying their particular ethnic, religious or cultural background.

[Curtman]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Curtman Curtman:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

If that is indeed the case then, it would explain why Theresa Spence with all her self taught legal wisdom, secret ancient life sustaining knowledge, exceptional accounting and animal tracking skills would think that any homo sapiens who look like her but live off reserve or out of her village are persona non gratis when it comes to basic democratic rights.

I only wonder if you consider yourself a biggot, or if you somehow think normal people think this way.

Nope, it only really appears when it pertains to Theresa Spence and her ilk. It's more akin to your love for our current PM than bigotry or even racism, sorry Homo Sapienism..

And for the record yes I do think it's normal to think this way especially when it comes to corruption, denying people their democratic rights, and a complete distain for your own people's needs and wants homo sapienism not withstanding.

So maybe it's like I said months ago, your vehement defense of the indefensible is nothing more than a smoke screen for pushing an agenda.

BTW I have the utmost respect for Chief Clarence Louie and leaders like him so, what does that make me?

A potential supreme court justice I suppose, since you are capable of judging others, based on Sun News articles alone! Impressive. Very impressive.

[Curtman]

Keithh has a question about why he should be responsible for paying back debt that dead people incurred....

keithh keithh:

guess my frustration is if I had any debt I would have no choice to pay it, why a group of people that work for us think they can get away with it....

Lemmy Lemmy:

huh?

Curtman Curtman:

peck420 peck420:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I think he means that individuals have to pay their debst while governments just shrug it off, refinance it, and kick the can down the road.

So can individuals.

Happens everyday.

It ties in nicely with the Attawapiskat thread though. Why should people today have to honour obligations of 142 years ago?

There should be some number. So we can just tell whoever owns that debt after 125 years or whatever: "We're not giving you anything, dead people made that deal. What do you want the white race to pay for that?"

I think they tried something like that in Cuba though, and it didn't go well.

stratos stratos:

Wow you really have no clue about sarcasm do you.

If anyone gets sarcasm, it's this guy right here.

Maybe you could explain how this works when we cancel our debts oh wise one.. I don't quite understand it myself.

Perhaps we can tell China, we don't like the way you treat your people. Go suck a lemon.

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

No, it's not reality for most of us. For example, when you say you 'despise native people'. Most of us don't think "uh-oh here comes another one of them" as we meet someone who is different than us.

Give me a break!

SD said it best above:

$1:

Anyone who claims they don't hold preconceived stereotypes, both positive and negative, is a liar.

Pretend you're all high and mighty all you want, we all know you're full of shit.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

No, it's not reality for most of us. For example, when you say you 'despise native people'. Most of us don't think "uh-oh here comes another one of them" as we meet someone who is different than us.

Give me a break!

No. I think I'll hang on to that one for a while, Out-To-Lunch.

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

No, it's not reality for most of us. For example, when you say you 'despise native people'. Most of us don't think "uh-oh here comes another one of them" as we meet someone who is different than us.

Give me a break!

No. I think I'll hang on to that one for a while, Out-To-Lunch.

Coming from the pot-smoker who often spouts off with nuggets of hilarity?

Name calling says little about me and quite a lot about you. Makes me laugh that you actually thing that name calling from some random stranger makes a blip on my 'give a shit' radar.

[Freakinoldguy]

Curtman Curtman:

A potential supreme court justice I suppose, since you are capable of judging others, based on Sun News articles alone! Impressive. Very impressive.

I'm glad I got your attention because I wouldn't have gone to all the work of pointing out the lack of democracy, shady business practices and questionable ethics of your idol if I didn't think you'd be suitably impressed.

As for my inclusion on the Supreme Court all I can say is, thanks for the vote of confidence and don't worry I'll save you a place on the bench since you apparently use the same high standards based on Cannabis Culture and high times articles when judging our current Prime Minister.

So given your propensity for double standards could you please explain to me why it's alright for you to judge Stephen Harper when it's not alright for anyone else to judge Theresa Spence and please don't use the race or sex card because it doesn't wash with taxpayer paid politicians, even at the village level?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Curtman Curtman:

A potential supreme court justice I suppose, since you are capable of judging others, based on Sun News articles alone! Impressive. Very impressive.

I'm glad I got your attention because I wouldn't have gone to all the work of pointing out the lack of democracy, shady business practices and questionable ethics of your idol if I didn't think you'd be suitably impressed.

As for my inclusion on the Supreme Court all I can say is, thanks for the vote of confidence and don't worry I'll save you a place on the bench since you apparently use the same high standards based on Cannabis Culture and high times articles when judging our current Prime Minister.

So given your propensity for double standards could you please explain to me why it's alright for you to judge Stephen Harper when it's not alright for anyone else to judge Theresa Spence and please don't use the race or sex card because it doesn't wash with taxpayer paid politicians, even at the village level?

I can just visualize Curt's brain exploding out the back of his head if this country ever elected a Conservative PM who was First Nations

[Curtman]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So given your propensity for double standards could you please explain to me why it's alright for you to judge Stephen Harper when it's not alright for anyone else to judge Theresa Spence and please don't use the race or sex card because it doesn't wash with taxpayer paid politicians, even at the village level?

Like I said before... Steve is my Prime Minister, elected to represent me. I've never been to Attawapiskat, and I doubt you have either. I don't have much to say at all about Alison Redford either for example. I don't think I've said anything as vile toward Steve as you've said about her either. I possibly made fun of his Lego Man hair-do at some point, I'll give you that. Sometimes we see people bitching about people elected outside of their province but it's rare, and its rare that it ever went into an attack unless it was about Dalton McGuinty.

I don't think anything good or bad about Theresa Spence, but I see no positive outcome of making her the scapegoat for everything that doesn't work in the Indian Act.

The difference to me is that you and your pals go on these long rants about her, when apparently she has improved the situation there. You folks blame her for everything that happened prior to her becoming chief. It makes exactly the same sense as blaming Steve for Adscam. But that's not all, count the number of posts that make fun of her weight.

I guess the final straw was the "white race" thing from you. It blows me away that people actually think that way in this day and age.

[Freakinoldguy]

Curtman Curtman:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So given your propensity for double standards could you please explain to me why it's alright for you to judge Stephen Harper when it's not alright for anyone else to judge Theresa Spence and please don't use the race or sex card because it doesn't wash with taxpayer paid politicians, even at the village level?

Like I said before... Steve is my Prime Minister, elected to represent me. I've never been to Attawapiskat, and I doubt you have either. I don't have much to say at all about Alison Redford either for example. I don't think I've said anything as vile toward Steve as you've said about her either. I possibly made fun of his Lego Man hair-do at some point, I'll give you that. Sometimes we see people bitching about people elected outside of their province but it's rare, and its rare that it ever went into an attack unless it was about Dalton McGuinty.

I don't think anything good or bad about Theresa Spence, but I see no positive outcome of making her the scapegoat for everything that doesn't work in the Indian Act.

The difference to me is that you and your pals go on these long rants about her, when apparently she has improved the situation there. You folks blame her for everything that happened prior to her becoming chief. It makes exactly the same sense as blaming Steve for Adscam. But that's not all, count the number of posts that make fun of her weight.

I guess the final straw was the "white race" thing from you. It blows me away that people actually think that way in this day and age.

Biggest problem is that she is a public official paid by the Canadian Taxpayers and whether you've been to Attwipiskat or not is irrelevant. I never voted for nor have I likely been in most of the Constituencies of the MP's in Parliament but, when my tax dollars pays their salary I should have the right to speak out if they act or abuse their power, which is what you seem to do every time the Current PM does anything you don't agree with.

As for blaming her for all the problems with the Indian Act. Show me once where I ever said that? I blame her for the deplorable conditions on the reserve she runs and her claims that she's representing the rest of the Natives in Canada while she's blatantly attempting to blackmail the Government, nothing else.

So had you read my posts you'd have figured out that it's not the rank and file natives I have an issue with, it's the self entitled, corrupt, demigods who run some of the reserves with the expectation of being paid like Donald Trump, treated like Elizabeth the First and catered to continually by the taxpayers of Canada.

Like I said there are a lot of good ones out there like Clarence Louie whom natives should be looking at for examples of how a leader, presents him or herself, works and acts.

Instead you and you ilk continue to champion the one leader that seems to embody all that's wrong with the Indian Act and the way that some natives are being led.

And since you're so quick to judge let me remind you that if you're pretty little eyes can only handle the everything neutral term Homo Sapiens, then you'd better put me on ignore because I come from a generation that didn't couch their thoughts in politically correct terms just so people like you could feel good about themselves.

BTW I'm waiting for you to convince the Federal Government and the Natives to change their title from First Nations to First Homo Sapiens so as not to offend your sensibilities.