[andyt]

Yeah, weep over one soldier with thousands dead. Since the thousands dead are just vermin, it's no big deal, right?

[Delwin]

Yeah the soldier who invaded the other country while killing hundreds of innocents got executed, pass me a tissue please.

[andyt]

Actually I thought they always kept them to trade for prisoners taken by Israel.

[Delwin]

Martin said he had a video where they executed one, couldn't have been this conflict.

[Delwin]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Delwin Delwin:

$1:

No, but seemingly you have a difficult time understanding that civilian casualties will still be high, considering the type of environment Hamas built its infrastructure in. Even then, Israel, and everybody else knows that mosques, hospitals, schools, and other civilian infrastructure is being used by Hamas, and yet Israel doesn't just bomb them upon discovery.

How do you know that they don't? They told you?

Sure, they told me, and showed me, considering huge swaths of Gaza aren't rubble, even though Israel does have complete legitimacy to destroy facilities being used for munition storage and tunnel entrances. Israel knows that Shifa Hospital is being used as a base of operations for Hamas, and as cover for rocket launches, and yet, that hospital is still standing. Shit, I must be in the inner sanctum of Israeli leadership.

$1:

I am arguing that they are ignoring civilian casualties, at best at least to the extend that they can get away with publicaly. So you think 1200 causalities is being careful, I don't. You have no evidence that if they didn't "care" they death toll would be higher, I would argue that if they were careful it would be much lower, apparently most the rest of the world agrees with me.

And how, pray tell, could it be lower? Israel does warn neighborhoods as best as they can before beginning major operations (thus compromising any surprise to actual Hamas fighters in the area) and they are moving in ground forces when they can easily just use air and artillery to destroy Hamas from afar, at the expense of higher civilian casualties. Why, if Israel truly did not care to limit civilian casualties, move any ground forces in, when they can accomplish their goals using their technological superiority in air and artillery?

"The rest of the world agreeing with you" is just argumentum ad populum. So lots of people agree with you, and lots of people agree with me. That adds absolutely nothing to the discussion or debate.

$1:

OK, so the battle has to take place on the settlements in order for it to be about the settlements ? Now you are just being silly. The battlefield and the reasons for conflict can exist independently from each other, just like every single war the US has fought in "defence" has never been fought on their soil.

Well, you're the one saying that Israel is waging this conflict to protect billions of investments in settlements...except Israeli settlements in the West Bank are not at risk, and there are no Israeli settlements in Gaza. To quote you:

Delwin, page 67 Delwin, page 67:

This is clearly not about the preservation of life.This is about the billions spent in the development of the settlements built on Palestinian land.

This is what you attributed to Israel's reason for the war, but the evidence, and common sense, basically discounts your poorly formed opinion on Israel's motivations for the conflict.

$1:

Not sure what this is meant to demonstate, even a military hospital is a hospital, you ever watch M.A.S.H ?

Oh I don't know, Hamas is using civilian infrastructure to hide its leadership and fire rockets from. First you wanted proof Hamas is using said hospital, and now that the proof exists, you only have to say "So what?" because, it's a military hospital or something, and absolutely nothing about how a terrorist group is using hundreds of innocent civilians as human shields to carry out their conflict with Israel.

$1:

They chose nothing they can't leave. it's a prison. Haven't you heard?

Yeah, of Hamas' own making. Haven't you heard? Egypt also has a border with Gaza...and seemingly they also keep the border shut. Man, what is with countries not wanting free flow of goods and people into terrorist controlled territory?

$1:

OK so it's illegal for him to do it so does that make it OK to bomb it ? The hospital has no control over my action.

Except if your little terrorist group uses a school for a munitions dump, is it a school, or is it a munitions dump? The answer is the latter. You made it into such a location and as such, you're at fault for when your enemy blows it up. Now, obviously, because in this situation, you're terrorist scum, you are gleeful over the deaths of your own people who might be nearby, who you obviously didn't mention that the schoolhouse over there was full of rockets and explosives, but you know, fuck 'em and not joining your righteous cause and all that.

Hamas specifically chose locations to house such munitions, and Israel does try to limit casualties, but they aren't going to expose themselves to needless risk doing so.

Ok so it was launched from the parking lot, hardly a "base of operations" and no evidence it had anything to do with the hospital, I wouldn't go killing hundreds of civilians over it or anything.

You are missing my point about the settlements. The point is, if Israel all of a sudden decide they want peace with Palestine, this would lead to the eventuality that they would need to give up the lands they stole.

It is in Israeli interests not to give up lands it stole, as a consequence it is in their interest to never wage peace with Palestine. You get it ?

By the rest of the world agreeing, I am talking about nations. Like their largest trading partner Brazil who recalled their ambassador from Israel despite having a huge interest in maintaining their relationship. If anything they should be biased in favor of Israel, much like the US who have launched criticisms despite their huge stake. It is not just, "well everyone else agrees". These are moves to speak out against atrocities despite costs they will incur because it is the right thing to do.

[Delwin]

Side A: Ok we actually want peace, what is it going to take for you to stop sending rockets and building tunnels.

Side B: Give us our land and stop the blockade on our port.

Side A: We have spend billions developing that land and giving it back would displace 500,000 of our citizens, we would be totally fucked, and i'm pretty sure id lose those votes. No way. We will just bomb your civilization into the stone age and the whole world will sit by and watch.

[commanderkai]

Delwin Delwin:

Ok so it was launched from the parking lot, hardly a "base of operations" and no evidence it had anything to do with the hospital, I wouldn't go killing hundreds of civilians over it or anything.

Wow, okay, now you're just not paying attention, or being purposely ignorant. You wanted evidence about how Hamas is using this hospital as a base of operations, I linked you, which you deemed "so what?", thus ignoring the FUCKING EVIDENCE OF HAMAS USING A CIVILIAN HOSPITAL AS A BASE OF OPERATIONS. On top of this, Hamas terrorists use the fucking parking lot of the hospital to fire rockets. Also, last I checked, Israel still hasn't bombed the hospital! So, what the fuck are you talking about?

$1:

You are missing my point about the settlements. The point is, if Israel all of a sudden decide they want peace with Palestine, this would lead to the eventuality that they would need to give up the lands they stole
It is in Israeli interests not to give up lands it stole, as a consequence it is in their interest to never wage peace with Palestine. You get it ?

No, you have no point about the settlements. You claimed that Israel was fighting this conflict to protect its investments in the various settlements, instead of protecting its civilian population. Your argument fails every bit of logical reasoning. Israel has no settlements in Gaza. Hamas has not been able to target any Israeli settlements, but rather Israel proper. As such, why would Israel engage in a costly war over its investments in settlements that are A) Dismantled (like those in Gaza, from 2005), or B) secure, because they're too far away for Hamas to target. It makes absolutely no sense.

Israel has already shown itself willing to give up huge swaths of land for peace. It gave up the Sinai for peace with Egypt, it gave up territory to Jordan for peace, it was willing to return the Golan Heights for peace, and they even gave up all settlements in Gaza as a sign of good faith. However, Israel received nothing but conflict for its pullout of Gaza, and yet you think Israel is stupid enough to make the same mistake twice without a deal firmly in place?

$1:

By the rest of the world agreeing, I am talking about nations. Like their largest trading partner Brazil who recalled their ambassador from Israel despite having a huge interest in maintaining their relationship. If anything they should be biased in favor of Israel, much like the US who have launched criticisms despite their huge stake. It is not just, "well everyone else agrees". These are moves to speak out against atrocities despite costs they will incur because it is the right thing to do.

Israel's largest trading partner is the United States, to start off with. So I'm not sure where this whole "largest trading partner Brazil" thing is coming from. They're 13th on the trade list for exports, and not even on the top 20 when it comes to imports. But hey, why let facts stand in the way of logical fallacies?

Seriously, the world agrees with you because Brazil pulled their ambassador and the United States is more critical than usual (until they shutted the fuck up when Hamas couldn't abide by a 72 hour ceasefire)? Oh oh, and the Arab states are not happy either, but they won't do fuck all about it.

[commanderkai]

Delwin Delwin:

Side B: Give us our land and stop the blockade on our port.

Oh, and out of curiosity, what land does Israel need to give to Hamas, and why the fuck should Israel not continue a blockade of sea lanes to a group that has never once stopped their desire to kill as many fucking Israels as possible?

Also, you know, it's not just Israel continuing a blockade here. There is this country called "Egypt", been around for a while, who also likes to keep their borders closed to Hamas. I wonder why.

[Delwin]

$1:

Wow, okay, now you're just not paying attention, or being purposely ignorant. You wanted evidence about how Hamas is using this hospital as a base of operations, I linked you, which you deemed "so what?", thus ignoring the FUCKING EVIDENCE OF HAMAS USING A CIVILIAN HOSPITAL AS A BASE OF OPERATIONS. On top of this, Hamas terrorists use the fucking parking lot of the hospital to fire rockets. Also, last I checked, Israel still hasn't bombed the hospital! So, what the fuck are you talking about?

Ok so if i am in your driveway and launch a rocket, it's evidence your house is a base of operations. No.

$1:

No, you have no point about the settlements. You claimed that Israel was fighting this conflict to protect its investments in the various settlements, instead of protecting its civilian population. Your argument fails every bit of logical reasoning. Israel has no settlements in Gaza. Hamas has not been able to target any Israeli settlements, but rather Israel proper. As such, why would Israel engage in a costly war over its investments in settlements that are A) Dismantled (like those in Gaza, from 2005), or B) secure, because they're too far away for Hamas to target. It makes absolutely no sense.

I never said that Israel was fighting this war to protect it's investments. I said that that is what this conflict is about. Israel is in fact fighting this war to eliminate tunnels and destroy military infrastructure. The reason for this conflict though is the settlement and occupation. The reason for Hamas is the Settlements and the occupation. The reason for the terrorist bombings, etc, etc.

$1:

Israel has already shown itself willing to give up huge swaths of land for peace. It gave up the Sinai for peace with Egypt, it gave up territory to Jordan for peace, it was willing to return the Golan Heights for peace, and they even gave up all settlements in Gaza as a sign of good faith. However, Israel received nothing but conflict for its pullout of Gaza, and yet you think Israel is stupid enough to make the same mistake twice without a deal firmly in place?

You mean giving back right ? Not giving up, Israel never conceded their land for peace.

$1:

Israel's largest trading partner is the United States, to start off with. So I'm not sure where this whole "largest trading partner Brazil" thing is coming from. They're 13th on the trade list for exports, and not even on the top 20 when it comes to imports. But hey, why let facts stand in the way of logical fallacies?

I forgot the word Latin, point still stands though.

$1:

Seriously, the world agrees with you because Brazil pulled their ambassador and the United States is more critical than usual (until they shutted the fuck up when Hamas couldn't abide by a 72 hour ceasefire)? Oh oh, and the Arab states are not happy either, but they won't do fuck all about it.

Did Hamas break the ceasefire ? Was it another terrorist faction ? Did every member of Hamas even know there was a ceasefire when all communications are down? You make a lot of assumptions. Hamas claim the attack happened before the ceasefire deadline.

[Delwin]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Delwin Delwin:

Side B: Give us our land and stop the blockade on our port.

Oh, and out of curiosity, what land does Israel need to give to Hamas, and why the fuck should Israel not continue a blockade of sea lanes to a group that has never once stopped their desire to kill as many fucking Israels as possible?

Also, you know, it's not just Israel continuing a blockade here. There is this country called "Egypt", been around for a while, who also likes to keep their borders closed to Hamas. I wonder why.

The orange is the settlements and the light blue are future settlements.

[Goober911]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-confl ... -1.2725940

Some Israeli ground forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip on Saturday, two Israeli television stations reported, after the military said it was close to achieving its main war goal of destroying Hamas cross-border tunnels.

Asked about the reports, an Israeli military spokesman said she could not comment on troop deployments.

Also on Saturday, Israel bombarded the southern Gaza town of Rafah as troops searched for an officer they believe was captured by Hamas in an ambush that shattered a humanitarian ceasefire and set the stage for a major escalation of the 26-day-old war

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

You're right. These terrorists sure got what they deserved.

Yes, they did. That's the cost of doing war and losing.

Waging war against people who can pound you into dust is never a good idea.





If Hamas wants to try to kill Israeli children then the price will be the children of Hamas.

[BartSimpson]

Delwin Delwin:

Yeah the soldier who invaded the other country while killing hundreds of innocents got executed, pass me a tissue please.

And don't mind me if I don't give a hairy rat's ass about your beloved Hamas terrorists and the people who put them into power.

[N_Fiddledog]

Delwin Delwin:

$1:

Wow, okay, now you're just not paying attention, or being purposely ignorant. You wanted evidence about how Hamas is using this hospital as a base of operations, I linked you, which you deemed "so what?", thus ignoring the FUCKING EVIDENCE OF HAMAS USING A CIVILIAN HOSPITAL AS A BASE OF OPERATIONS. On top of this, Hamas terrorists use the fucking parking lot of the hospital to fire rockets. Also, last I checked, Israel still hasn't bombed the hospital! So, what the fuck are you talking about?

Ok so if i am in your driveway and launch a rocket, it's evidence your house is a base of operations. No.

Maybe not ([url=This does that), but watch how silly the sort of thing you describe makes any possible complaint you might have look.

[desertdude]

US, you can't be Israels rehab sponsor as well as its drug dealer.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ythuz ... d-of-peace