[Newsbot]

Title: Winter road will be carved through northern Manitoba to get supplies to Churchill
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2017-10-20 09:32:54
Canadian

[Robair]

Our taxes will pay for the transport. Railroad or ice road.
You can thank Harper. With no Wheatboard, there is no need for a port in Churchill. With no port, there is no money in a railway to Churchill. Everybody knew this was coming.

[Thanos]

Seems far less to do with Harper and much more to do with the rail-line being wrecked by spring flooding and the company hired to maintain it fucking around on getting the repairs done.

[Robair]

It's the company that owns it. Same company that owned the port, which became useless when Harper trashed the wheatboard.

Flooding was certainly the nail in the coffin. But given the companies dealings with Canada re the port etc, the relationship already would have been strained to say the least.

[DrCaleb]

Robair Robair:

It's the company that owns it. Same company that owned the port, which became useless when Harper trashed the wheatboard.

Many a town will die, due to that decision. Churchill will just be the first.

[Thanos]

Seems fairly complicated, other than the port and the railroad being sold to a private company by the Chretien government, not the Harper one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Churchill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Bay_Railway_(1997)

Lots of blame to go around apparently, and it goes back a long way starting with the questionable wisdom of using a shallow-water port that's iced-in for almost eight months of the year as a major grain shipping terminus to begin with. Looks like a lot of government money got wasted over the decades to keep the Churchill facilities relevant when negotiating better terms for shipping via the St. Laurence or using railroads through the US to year-round ports would have been much better ideas.

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

Seems fairly complicated, other than the port and the railroad being sold to a private company by the Chretien government, not the Harper one.

When it was farmers running the Wheat Board, I recall reading they preferred Churchill because it was cheaper to ship there than to anywhere for Manitoba and Northern Saskatchewan grain.

It was Harper who decided the Farmers would never control their own destiny and run the Wheat Board, instead selling it to the Saudis unchallenged.

Of course, I therefore blame Harper.

[stratos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Robair Robair:

It's the company that owns it. Same company that owned the port, which became useless when Harper trashed the wheatboard.

Many a town will die, due to that decision. Churchill will just be the first.

Can you explain to me a little bit what the "Wheatboard" was/is and how it's the cause for the town(s) to die off?

[Robair]

Thanos Thanos:

Seems fairly complicated, other than the port and the railroad being sold to a private company by the Chretien government, not the Harper one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Churchill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Bay_Railway_(1997)

Lots of blame to go around apparently, and it goes back a long way starting with the questionable wisdom of using a shallow-water port that's iced-in for almost eight months of the year as a major grain shipping terminus to begin with. Looks like a lot of government money got wasted over the decades to keep the Churchill facilities relevant when negotiating better terms for shipping via the St. Laurence or using railroads through the US to year-round ports would have been much better ideas.

Your Wiki article contradicts itself in the first two paragraphs.

The coast ports are definitely NOT cheaper to ship grain through from the prairies.

Farmers realized a huge savings using Churchill.

The private companies that farmers HAVE to deal with now that Harper destroyed THE FARMERS WHEAT BOARD have incentives to move grain through ports that THEY own on the coasts.

[Robair]

stratos stratos:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Robair Robair:

It's the company that owns it. Same company that owned the port, which became useless when Harper trashed the wheatboard.

Many a town will die, due to that decision. Churchill will just be the first.

Can you explain to me a little bit what the "Wheatboard" was/is and how it's the cause for the town(s) to die off?

Briefly, it was a mandated single desk board. Owned and operated by farmers. It was run by farmer elected board members.

It's mission was to maximize returns at the farm gate. Make as much money as possible for farmers.

So if there was a cheaper way for farmers to ship grain, they were all over it.

The Wheat Board has now been replaced by large agri-businesses whose mission is to buy 3rd and 4th homes for their executives and have farmers pay for them.

[DrCaleb]

Robair Robair:

stratos stratos:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Many a town will die, due to that decision. Churchill will just be the first.

Can you explain to me a little bit what the "Wheatboard" was/is and how it's the cause for the town(s) to die off?

Briefly, it was a mandated single desk board. Owned and operated by farmers. It was run by farmer elected board members.

It's mission was to maximize returns at the farm gate. Make as much money as possible for farmers.

So if there was a cheaper way for farmers to ship grain, they were all over it.

The Wheat Board has now been replaced by large agri-businesses whose mission is to buy 3rd and 4th homes for their executives and have farmers pay for them.

To add, the Board was formed during WWII to ensure a food supply. All grains were subject to rules, like that Western (but not Eastern) farmers had to sell their grain to the Board.

After the war, it eventually evolved into a group with World Wide influence - the Canadian Wheat Board basically controlled the price of many grains around the world, due to it's huge volume of grain. This let Farmers get better prices for their crops. It also mandated making transport available to Farmers to get their crop to market in good condition in a timely manner.

Even though the Board evolved into a Farmer run co-operative, Harper used a distorted view of the 'free market' as an excuse to eliminate the Wheat Board. Since it's elimination, big Agribusiness that controls the ports, graineries, silos, and railcars has made it difficult for the independent Farmer to sell products on the market and get the grain to market in a timely manner.

Many towns relied on their graineries and silos, as farmers who transported things to the silo for transport to rail cars would also buy things in town. Many prairie towns, like the the one I grew up in, relied on the Farmers for income. The town basically formed on both sides of the railroad, with the grainery in the center.

With the graineries going under because agribusiness owns their own farms, silos and rail transport, many small towns don't have enough business to sustain them.



Edit: The above is an actual picture of the town I grew up in. You can see the grain elevators in the foreground, the rail line, and the town. The road in the center is King Street. The one on the leftmost is Queen Street. The large structure top left, was the only school in town, Queen Street school.

[Thanos]

The Wheat Board certainly didn't do their public image any favours by levying massive fines on farmers that didn't want to participate, or even going as far as having farmers who sold their own grain as a protest tossed in jail.

[Robair]

Thanos Thanos:

The Wheat Board certainly didn't do their public image any favours by levying massive fines on farmers that didn't want to participate, or even going as far as having farmers who sold their own grain as a protest tossed in jail.

I'm about two more replies away from telling you to go fuck yourself.

Not there yet, just to be clear.

That happened before the board was controlled by farmer elected members. Farmers gaining full control of the board was the outcome of that protest. The board evolved over time.

This farmer controlled board, that prevented large agri-business from squeezing farmers for ever cent, is the one Harper destroyed with a signature. He did this because no matter how many votes were held, no matter how he tinkered with the board elections, farmers kept electing pro-single desk board members.

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

The Wheat Board certainly didn't do their public image any favours by levying massive fines on farmers that didn't want to participate, or even going as far as having farmers who sold their own grain as a protest tossed in jail.

Very true. But Harper also could have changed the wheat board, or sold the wheat board to the Farmers Cooperative that wanted to buy it.

Instead he decided they would never own it, presumably from some Kenysian desire for a freer market.

Ninjaed by Robair.

[stratos]

Okay thanks for clearing it up for me and explaining it. So I take it these same companies own the railroad that is all messed up from the floods and from the article want most of the bill for the ice road to be paid for by taxes.