[Newsbot]

Title: Visually impaired student and guide dog asked to provide ID multiple times a day
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2019-02-05 18:00:29
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

You don't have to show ID in public. Just say 'no'.

[raydan]

She can, but in that case they can refuse access to the dog. It's like buying cigarettes, if you refuse to show ID, they can refuse to sell you the cigs.

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

She can, but in that case they can refuse access to the dog. It's like buying cigarettes, if you refuse to show ID, they can refuse to sell you the cigs.

Her ID is irrelevant to the guide dog status of the dog. She still has the human right of not being denied access because of a disability, even with the guide dog. If the rent a cops want proof of the status of the dog, that is fine. But her ID is off limits.

https://cnib.ca/en/programs-and-service ... ?region=ab

[llama66]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

raydan raydan:

She can, but in that case they can refuse access to the dog. It's like buying cigarettes, if you refuse to show ID, they can refuse to sell you the cigs.

Her ID is irrelevant to the guide dog status of the dog. She still has the human right of not being denied access because of a disability, even with the guide dog. If the rent a cops want proof of the status of the dog, that is fine. But her ID is off limits.

https://cnib.ca/en/programs-and-service ... ?region=ab

Service Animals are supposed to have ID. As a security person, I can ask to see your ID, after all it does not belong to you, its property of the Government. You do not have to surrender your ID (and I can't compel you to produce it), but I can ask to see it.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

raydan raydan:

She can, but in that case they can refuse access to the dog. It's like buying cigarettes, if you refuse to show ID, they can refuse to sell you the cigs.

Her ID is irrelevant to the guide dog status of the dog. She still has the human right of not being denied access because of a disability, even with the guide dog. If the rent a cops want proof of the status of the dog, that is fine. But her ID is off limits.

https://cnib.ca/en/programs-and-service ... ?region=ab

Service Animals are supposed to have ID. As a security person, I can ask to see your ID, after all it does not belong to you, its property of the Government. You do not have to surrender your ID (and I can't compel you to produce it), but I can ask to see it.

You can ask to see my ID, but you are not the government. I have still a right to privacy, and unlawful search. Nothing compels me to show it to security personnel, nor to law enforcement.

What are your rights if stopped on the street by police?.

I'm not saying I wouldn't, but I don't have to. And I'm a big proponent of my rights; and being the only thing that will protect my rights is me.

[llama66]

It's unreasonable search, you're right you don't have to produce ID, but if I'm asking you to produce ID and you choose not to, I can ask you to leave the property...

I too am a big believer in FOIP and PIPEDA. I'd show my ID because I have nothing to hide. If I wanted to.. I could force the Police to get an Order to Produce...

The thing that gets me is Being checked in a mall multiple times... Are the guards not radioing into Control? Are the guards not listening to their own radios?

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

It's unreasonable search, you're right you don't have to produce ID, but if I'm asking you to produce ID and you choose not to, I can ask you to leave the property...

Of course. I have no right to be on private property. But that is a pretty destructive way to do business. Word gets around, suddenly the mall grows empty . . .

llama66 llama66:

I too am a big believer in FOIP and PIPEDA. I'd show my ID because I have nothing to hide. If I wanted to.. I could force the Police to get an Order to Produce...

I don't buy the 'nothing to hide' argument. I have a default right to privacy. Trying to guilt me into giving that up is what 'nothing to hide' represents. If I am doing nothing wrong, I have no reason to produce ID.

[llama66]

$1:

Of course. I have no right to be on private property. But that is a pretty destructive way to do business. Word gets around, suddenly the mall grows empty . . .

Maybe, and I'm not saying its common practice for me (or another competent security guard) to demand ID.

$1:

I don't buy the 'nothing to hide' argument. I have a default right to privacy. Trying to guilt me into giving that up is what 'nothing to hide' represents. If I am doing nothing wrong, I have no reason to produce ID.

Maybe "nothing to hide" is too simplistic an answer, I just don't like shit and abuse. If a cop asks for my ID I'll give it so I can leave quicker. I have no desire to play games with Cops. Security maybe... but thats because I know what they can and can't do.

Personally I love it when the sensortronic at shop entrances goes off when I am exiting... I'm secretly hoping they stop me and accuse me of theft... (does that make me an asshole?)

[herbie]

raydan raydan:

She can, but in that case they can refuse access to the dog. It's like buying cigarettes, if you refuse to show ID, they have to refuse to sell you the cigs.

FTFY
Not the same. One is a legal requirement, the other's being an asshole by choice. Who the hell would even think to question someone with a marked service dog unless they were a prick.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

Maybe "nothing to hide" is too simplistic an answer, I just don't like shit and abuse. If a cop asks for my ID I'll give it so I can leave quicker. I have no desire to play games with Cops. Security maybe... but thats because I know what they can and can't do.

I too don't like shit and abuse. But I think the incessant erosion of our rights and privacy through 1000 cuts is the problem. I don't like store wi-fi tracking my phone when I stop in front of a display and sending me coupons for things in that display. And I hate that my phone was 'updated' to not allow me to turn wi-fi auto log on off. Just one of 999 other examples.

And Cops who exceed their authority are on that list. I choose to fight reclaim my rights over convenience. Not that I ever get asked for ID, just I will not produce it when asked.

llama66 llama66:

Personally I love it when the sensortronic at shop entrances goes off when I am exiting... I'm secretly hoping they stop me and accuse me of theft... (does that make me an asshole?)

Yes. But that isn't a bad thing. I used to work in a grocery, and I know the 'security guard posing as a customer' routine. Secretly I want one of them to catch me at the door and search me, specifically because I keep myself squeaky clean in that respect.

[DrCaleb]

herbie herbie:

Who the hell would even think to question someone with a marked service dog unless they were a prick.

People buying little vests that say 'Service Dog' so they can take their pets into malls and restaurants is actually a thing.

[llama66]

herbie herbie:

raydan raydan:

She can, but in that case they can refuse access to the dog. It's like buying cigarettes, if you refuse to show ID, they have to refuse to sell you the cigs.

FTFY
Not the same. One is a legal requirement, the other's being an asshole by choice. Who the hell would even think to question someone with a marked service dog unless they were a prick.

Because Service Animal Fraud is a thing.
I challenge service animal owners (that I think may not be actually legitimate). It's incumbent on YOU to PROVE you have a service animal. Properties have no animal policies not only due to allergy issues, but to also prevent animal attacks inside a property where ultimately the property management company could be held liable for.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... ng-problem
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/o ... -1.4567432
https://dogtime.com/trending/29963-spea ... -dog-fraud
https://nhes.org/service-animal-fraud/

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I don't buy the 'nothing to hide' argument. I have a default right to privacy. Trying to guilt me into giving that up is what 'nothing to hide' represents. If I am doing nothing wrong, I have no reason to produce ID.

Tell the police to fuck off when they ask for ID just to intimidate you and to get their contact quota for the day (yes, this is real).

As to security guards demanding my ID the last time I had someone in a suit demand my ID and simultaneously ordered me to remove my sunglasses I told him he was free to try to take off my sunglasses.

And yesterday at work I had some self-anointed tin-pot dictator demand that I give her my Social Security number 'for her records' and I told her to kiss my ass.

I also do not submit to warrantless searches just to prove that I'm not 'hiding anything'.

No shit: anyone pulling that shit with my had best have their life insurance paid up because anymore I am not playing with these fuckers.

The last time I tried to play nice with an asshole who had a badge I ended up needing shoulder surgery. Fuck that.

You want my ID so fucking bad then you'd best be prepared to die for it.

Edit: Aside from Costco I also refuse to 'show my receipt' after I've paid for my goods at a store. Again, if you want it so bad then you'd best be prepared to die for it.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Edit: Aside from Costco I also refuse to 'show my receipt' after I've paid for my goods at a store. Again, if you want it so bad then you'd best be prepared to die for it.

https://thetakeout.com/why-costco-emplo ... 1830254570