[Newsbot]

Title: Toronto is gathering cellphone location data from telecoms to find out where people are still congregating
Category: Tech
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2020-03-24 10:26:19
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

I'm sure bigger brother will use these powers for the common good, once the crisis is over.

[Winnipegger]

Enforcement is actually violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And the federal Emergency Measures Act explicitly states it cannot overrule the Charter.

Canadian Charter of Rights and freedoms. Part I, clause 2.
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Only the notwithstanding clause can override it. Justin Trudeau said the federal government cannot invoke the notwithstanding clause, but that's wrong. It can be invoked by an act of federal Parliament or provincial Legislature. It cannot be invoked by a Prime Minister or Premier. The federal government is minority right now, so I don't see the notwithstanding clause happening.

This means government cannot use police to break up groups of 50 people, or any size. They cannot even issue fines.

The Nuremberg trials at the end of World War 2 established the precedent that soldiers and police not only have the right the refuse an illegal order, they are required to do so. If they comply with an illegal order, they can be charged and convicted. That principle continues in all western societies, including Canada.

Collecting cell phone data is a violation of privacy laws.

Congregating is a bad idea; but violating civil liberties is worse.

[DrCaleb]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Collecting cell phone data is a violation of privacy laws.

Congregating is a bad idea; but violating civil liberties is worse.

I think that using the drivers license photo database to facially recognize people on police body cams is also a violation, but they do it anyhow.

Just like the companies that would give you real time access to a person's cell phone didn't face any prosecution for their actions, because police were using the service.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/us-ce ... tion-data/

[Martin15]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Canadian Charter of Rights and freedoms. Part I, clause 2.
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
.

Considering this government just tried to give itself unlimited money power without
even the show of Parliamentary approval, we can safely say this Trudeau government
absolutely does not give one single fuck about the Constitution, or who they
trample over to get the power and money they want.


Aren't you the big Liberal supporter ? Feeling good these days ?

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm sure bigger brother will use these powers for the common good, once the crisis is over.

I'm sure they're just trying to legitimize an abuse they've already been doing anyway.

[BartSimpson]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

The Nuremberg trials at the end of World War 2 established the precedent that soldiers and police not only have the right the refuse an illegal order, they are required to do so. If they comply with an illegal order, they can be charged and convicted. That principle continues in all western societies, including Canada.

Collecting cell phone data is a violation of privacy laws.

Congregating is a bad idea; but violating civil liberties is worse.

+5 for being one of the few people who understands that "following orders" is not an excuse.

[DrCaleb]

The government does have the right to violate privacy in the event of a health emergency. Safety and Security of the person supersedes the Right to Privacy.

I'm concerned with what happens after the emergency. Governments aren't big on returning rights taken during an emergency.

[Sunnyways]

As long as it stops after the pandemic, I don’t see what’s wrong here. All sorts of surveillance happens without my informed consent for purely commercial reasons by Facebook and Co. The countries that have been successful against COVID-19 have used surveillance aggressively.,

[Tricks]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Enforcement is actually violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And the federal Emergency Measures Act explicitly states it cannot overrule the Charter.

Canadian Charter of Rights and freedoms. Part I, clause 2.
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Only the notwithstanding clause can override it. Justin Trudeau said the federal government cannot invoke the notwithstanding clause, but that's wrong. It can be invoked by an act of federal Parliament or provincial Legislature. It cannot be invoked by a Prime Minister or Premier. The federal government is minority right now, so I don't see the notwithstanding clause happening.

This means government cannot use police to break up groups of 50 people, or any size. They cannot even issue fines.

The Nuremberg trials at the end of World War 2 established the precedent that soldiers and police not only have the right the refuse an illegal order, they are required to do so. If they comply with an illegal order, they can be charged and convicted. That principle continues in all western societies, including Canada.

Collecting cell phone data is a violation of privacy laws.

Congregating is a bad idea; but violating civil liberties is worse.

Unless it passes the Oakes test. It's literally in the the first section of the Charter.

"The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society"

If limiting free assembly for a couple months helps not have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people get sick and die, I'm pretty sure that will pass the Oakes test.

Collecting phone data probably wouldn't.

[DrCaleb]

A good summary of the problem:

As civil liberties erode, Canada must not allow COVID-19 outbreak to infect the rule of law

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Soooo you all were fine with having your every movement tracked when it was private enterprise but you draw the line at the govt doing it?

[Unsound]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Soooo you all were fine with having your every movement tracked when it was private enterprise but you draw the line at the govt doing it?

Not sure yet how I feel about what's happening with this stuff atm, but there is a clear difference between the government snooping on everone and a private company snooping on customers who have willingly signed up to be snooped on. Even if we're stretching "willingly" quite a bit in most of these situations where you agreed to 100 pages of small print that no one reads when you signed up for whatever.

[DrCaleb]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Soooo you all were fine with having your every movement tracked when it was private enterprise but you draw the line at the govt doing it?

Assumes facts not in evidence.

[Sunnyways]

Unsound Unsound:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Soooo you all were fine with having your every movement tracked when it was private enterprise but you draw the line at the govt doing it?

Not sure yet how I feel about what's happening with this stuff atm, but there is a clear difference between the government snooping on everone and a private company snooping on customers who have willingly signed up to be snooped on. Even if we're stretching "willingly" quite a bit in most of these situations where you agreed to 100 pages of small print that no one reads when you signed up for whatever.

Those enormous contracts cannot be considered to constitute informed consent and there’s little intent to benefit us in any surveillance that results. By contrast, in this pandemic our government should use any means possible to detect people congregating and also to trace contacts.