[Newsbot]

Title: There is a military strategy against Islamic State
Category: Military
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2015-06-20 10:54:29

[Canadian_Mind]

Well thought out article. The Kurds could very well be friendly to the west if the west would stop fucking them over. Perhaps if we help them now the broken promises of the past will end up being forgotten.

[BRAH]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Well thought out article. The Kurds could very well be friendly to the west if the west would stop fucking them over. Perhaps if we help them now the broken promises of the past will end up being forgotten.

The Kurds are the boots on the ground and it makes sense to support them.

[andyt]

Except that doing so will piss off the Turks, who are becoming the regional power and is in NATO as a bulwark against Russia. No easy answers here. We don't want to piss off Turkey, especially now that they've rejected the Islamists and have more Kurd MPs. Not sure if the Obama Admin is up for getting involved diplomatically to try to help settle this between Kurds and Turkey. Doubt there's a Republicon candidate that would have the vision to do it if elected Prexy. Hilary might.

[N_Fiddledog]

Turkey has two faces in it's dealings with the West. Friend or foe. The answer is yes. Which is the moreso? Matter of opinion.

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2015/0 ... -partners/

Also it's a landing area for ISIS applicants abroad, while the economy and trade of ISIS moves through Turkey. Plus it sabre rattles against the West's better friend of Israel. Plus there's a suspicion Erdogan's only real beef with ISIS is he thinks he should be the next Caliph.

We'd do better with the Kurds.

[Thanos]

The Kurds are good at defending their own territory for the most part but that's about it. Expecting to turn them into some kind of deployment force to chase ISIS all over traditional Sunni territory is fairly ridiculous though, just another one of these think-tank derived pipe dreams that have caused so much damage and death in that region.

[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

The Kurds are good at defending their own territory for the most part but that's about it. Expecting to turn them into some kind of deployment force to chase ISIS all over traditional Sunni territory is fairly ridiculous though, just another one of these think-tank derived pipe dreams that have caused so much damage and death in that region.

I didn't read the article. If that's what it's postulating, then all it's good for is ass wipe.

We'd better get in good with Turkey. Just read they are increasingly the super power in the region. And about as secular as it gets over there, especially with the latest election results. But we should not abandon the Kurds either. As I said, somebody needs to try to negotiate between Kurds and Turkey.

Basically it seems that ISIS running the center of Iraq seems like a done deal, unless we want to go back over there en masse. Who's got the will or the money for that? What kind of real contribution could Canada make? Let ISIS form a real state. Then you have a proper country to go to war with if necessary. Iran/Southern Iraq from the south, Kurds, maybe Turkey in the north, and at the least some serious bombing from Western countries. Once ISIS becomes a real govt of a real country, they can't play wackamole any more, they have to build infrastructure that is much more susceptible to bombing attacks. And since the local Sunnis seem to be all in with ISIS, we don't have to worry about bombing civilians any more than we usually do when going to war against another country. Probably lots of innocent Iraqis killed during Iraq I & II, didn't seem to bother anybody.

[N_Fiddledog]

The problem with not reading the article though is you become experts in something that was never said.

For example Krauthammer said nothing about Kurd's chasing "ISIS all over traditional Sunni territory".

This was the thesis of the OP article.

"It’s time for a new strategy in Iraq and Syria. It begins by admitting that the old borders are gone, that a unified Syria or Iraq will never be reconstituted, that the Sykes-Picot map is defunct.
We may not want to enunciate that policy officially. After all, it does contradict the principle that colonial borders be maintained no matter how insanely drawn, the alternative being almost universally worse. Nonetheless, in Mesopotamia, balkanization is the only way to go."

He's suggesting backing friendlies to create their own geographical power bases. He mentions Sunni militias that were friendly with the American regime, and the Free Syrian Army’s Southern Front, backed by and trained in Jordan.

[N_Fiddledog]

The other thing I posted it's better not to click because the link doesn't work properly.

But it deals more with Turkey's two-faced dealing with the West and it's more friendly moves toward Russia and China.

Turkey is not our friend.

$1:

True, Turkey’s leaders have affirmed their commitment to Ukraine’s territorial integrity at every opportunity. Yet they have not applied political and economic means to this end. Instead, they have actively avoided contributing to western efforts to curb Russian aggression in Ukraine. Turkey has failed to see that using political and economic tools has become inseparable from the overall Euro-Atlantic efforts to maintain security and stability in the region. In the new geopolitical context, unwittingly, Ankara plays into the hands of Moscow’s strategy—to gamble on disunity in the west and weaken Nato.

Clearly, disunity in the EU, Turkey’s energy dependence on Russia and its security concerns to the south have discouraged Ankara from joining other western countries in imposing sanctions on Russia. Moreover, despite the Nato resources deployed to its south to boost its security, Turkey is sceptical about the solidarity of its allies, also due to a potential US shift toward Asia. Last but not least, Ankara has been disappointed by the unwillingness of its allies to wage a larger campaign against the Damascus regime.

Ankara labels its low-level engagement as ‘peace diplomacy’, which it defines as transforming geopolitical tensions into economic competition. In practical terms, however, Ankara has been opportunistic. It negotiated a better price for its gas imports and, controversially, moved to deepen its partnership with Moscow. Ankara agreed to build the Turkish Stream pipeline with Moscow, and both have started the construction of Turkey’s first nuclear power plant, whose economic and security rationales are debatable. Moreover, Ankara’s reluctance to follow western policy has coincided with its provisional decision to conclude a deal on a missile defence system with China, which would be non-Nato compatible and would have a major impact on the whole architecture of missile defence in Europe.

Indeed, Ankara expects much from its deepened ties with Moscow, despite Russia’s international isolation. Instead of being a candidate state waiting at the EU’s doorstep for another decade, Turkey hopes to secure a better seat in the global power shift to Asia. The possibility of making joint nuclear power plants in third countries with Russia’s Rosatom, for example, is highly valued.

However, Ankara naively overlooks the effects of consolidating its energy dependency on Moscow, and of rising western concerns over Moscow’s potential weight in Turkey’s future foreign policy.

Turkey may be aiming to sit on two chairs at once but its current chair is already swaying. It recent controversial foreign policy initiatives have overlapped with existing concerns over its already unpredictable foreign policy. On top of continuous anti-western rhetoric by Turkey’s leaders and the ‘sentimental’ nature of their policy making following the excessive centralisation of power, Turkey has now demonstrated an ability to distance itself from its western partners at times of crises. Its decreased alignment with EU foreign policy has already cast doubts on Turkey’s future EU membership. In the new geopolitical context, decreased trust risks introducing new costs. Turkey may see a decrease in its capacities within Nato, where it enjoys a privileged place thanks to its vital assets. Such decreased trust might affect a wide range of issues from the level of shared intelligence to a decrease in its potential defence market.

[N_Fiddledog]

The writer of the article in the OP "is an American Pulitzer Prize-winning syndicated columnist, author, political commentator, and physician. His weekly column is syndicated to more than 400 newspapers worldwide.

He was a weekly panelist on the PBS news program Inside Washington from 1990 until it ceased production in December 2013."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Krauthammer

[Thanos]

Is there any point at all to any of this beyond the usual 'we gotta destroy the village to save it' nonsense that American politicians have lived by since 1964? Seriously, the only thing that would fix anything would be to build a time machine, go back to the 1950's, and convince President Eisenhower not to inherit failed French colonial policy in Indochina or failed British colonial policy in the Muslim world. Everything bad that's happened to the US since World War Two is a direct result of them choosing to take up where the failed British and French empires left of.

[ShepherdsDog]

"We'll win your hearts and minds, or we'll burn your damn huts to the ground."

[Thanos]

It's the same damn thing over and over again. All that ever changes is the locations.

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

Is there any point at all to any of this beyond the usual 'we gotta destroy the village to save it' nonsense that American politicians have lived by since 1964? Seriously, the only thing that would fix anything would be to build a time machine, go back to the 1950's, and convince President Eisenhower not to inherit failed French colonial policy in Indochina or failed British colonial policy in the Muslim world. Everything bad that's happened to the US since World War Two is a direct result of them choosing to take up where the failed British and French empires left of.

I don't agree with your description of history there, but doesn't matter.

Are you asking if I agree it would be better to just walk away, and see what happens?

I don't.

ISIS is spreading.

An ISIS supporter ran his car into a couple of Canadian soldiers after ISIS offered the command for such attacks via social media. Another Canadian convert and ISIS supporter attacked our parliament buildings. ISIS suggested such attacks then they happened.

Al Jazeera did a survey of it's viewers and asked if they supported ISIS. 80 some odd percent said yes. ISIS is inspiring terrorist attacks world-wide right now.

It has a physical presence in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, the Sinai, and Tunisia. It has allies in other Islamic extremist organizations throughout North and central Africa.

They say ISIS now has the material for dirty bombs. It keeps saying it wants to eventually take it's war international. I'd believe them.

As to what happened before. What would have happened if history had played out differently? Who knows? Maybe we'd be battling radioactive cockroaches for twinky crumbs. Who knows?

[Thanos]

The bullet spoke too.

It was a Mark Seven cartridge. Smokeless powder load. One hundred and seventy-four grains of lead. That it's time had not yet come was something of a miracle.

It spoke of soldiers of the Queen, clutching Lee-Metfords as they crumpled under Boer sniper fire. And of Harry Morant, shouting his defiance into the African dawn. It spoke of Easter week in Dublin town and gunboats on the Liffey, of men transmuted into martyrs by the firing squad.

It spoke of other feats of alchemy. Of the Thirty-Sixth Division on the Somme, young Belfastmen exchanging sashes, shaking hands, becoming legend in a minute of machine-gun fire. Of Kurd and Afghan villages strafed into obedience. Of India. Of Africa. Of a world held at gunpoint by an island.

One round. Three-oh-three.

---

The impossible: a thousand yards through iron sights alone.

He’d heard highlights of the great man’s schedule announced on television. Visited the best location. Paced out a hurried walk from kerb to door. Discerned the landmarks with which to frame his shot. Knowing how the thing would go, he thought about a message to explain himself. A letter, maybe, absolving those who vengeful forces would delight in blaming. Now stop thinking like a human being, was what he told himself. Tanks would roll and bombers would fly. The gods of industry would howl with glee, just as they had that morning in September. History would not care.

The glass would be a problem, but an open window was a dead giveaway. Another calculation. One more factor to allow for. He started breathing. Long slow oxygenating breaths.

History never cared. Not for special teams forces made up of kids, a promising sergeant notwithstanding. Nor cocky Englishmen. Nor Afghan women covered in gore. Nor doomed Americans in search of death’s release. History never cared and history was the force he chose to serve.

The bullet cracked the air, though being supersonic the crack would come too late. Somewhere out on its parabola it hung for just a fraction of an instant, as if in deep consideration of its purpose. It carried history with it. Of weapons turned against their owners, fatal misfires in the breech, whole wars that ricocheted and took their masters in the face. Two thousand four hundred and forty feet per second.

A thing of empire, come to kill another.

- Garth Ennis, 303