[Newsbot]

Title: Space firm says Canadian Mars plan won't get off the ground
Category: Science
Posted By: saturn_656
Date: 2012-07-25 11:52:37
Canadian

[saturn_656]

NASA quits, Euros bring in Russia, and kick Canada out?

[QBall]

In tough economic times luxuries like space exploration are usually the first things to be cut in the budget.

[saturn_656]

QBall QBall:

In tough economic times luxuries like space exploration are usually the first things to be cut in the budget.

Which is a shame, because the government still blows more cash on ventures of less worth even in these "tough times".

[bootlegga]

QBall QBall:

In tough economic times luxuries like space exploration are usually the first things to be cut in the budget.

Too bad it is 'luxuries' like this that spur innovation and develop loads of new technologies. Things like this and R&D should not be considered a 'luxury' IMHO - they should be considered a necessity.

Here's a list of some of the technologies derived from the NASA;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

[2Cdo]

I seen a video on another thread where it was suggested that for every dollar invested in NASA it returned $10 in benefits to society.

Man thrives with discovery and exploration and when we lessen that we are the worse off.

[DrCaleb]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I seen a video on another thread where it was suggested that for every dollar invested in NASA it returned $10 in benefits to society.

Man thrives with discovery and exploration and when we lessen that we are the worse off.

It was Lemmy who said that the way to fix an economy is through the massivly focused projects, like Kennedy's moon landing.

post1905682#p1905682

[2Cdo]

Found it

Tricks Tricks:

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Too bad it is 'luxuries' like this that spur innovation and develop loads of new technologies. Things like this and R&D should not be considered a 'luxury' IMHO - they should be considered a necessity.

In an era of budget cuts and declining revenues you end up with a choice between social programs or more tangible things like space programs and we're choosing social programs. Simple as that.

[BeaverFever]

Well I consider Health Care (which is the largest budget item) pretty tangible. I would definitely put space exploration behind that.

[bootlegga]

Yes, and there have been plenty of MEDICAL innovations made BECAUSE of NASA and space exploration (see link above).

There are numerous spin-offs we can reap from the space program, and probably many that we aren't even aware of until they come along.

The reason the US is the world's richest, most powerful nation is because of the space program. It created dozens, if not hundreds of technologies that allowed the US to leap frog the rest of mankind in a generation.

I'm not saying that Canada's participation in this mission will do that for us, but we learn lot of things - other than whether or not ants can sort screws in space - simply by going into space.

Close examination of Mars could lead to breakthroughs in dealing with our own climate here on earth. Missions to nearby asteroids could provide us with more resources than we'd conceivably need. And so on.

Investing in R&D (and by extension space missions) leads to a better life for all of us. R&D should be spent on many different topics of interest, not just medicine - which by the way receives billions of dollars of funding annually here in Canada (governments and corporate donations).

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Well I consider Health Care (which is the largest budget item) pretty tangible. I would definitely put space exploration behind that.

Then there you go.

[BeaverFever]

Yeah, I'm not saying that hasn't been the case. But medical innovations and access to health care are not synonymous. I'm not willing to endure cuts that close hospitals, increase wait times orout-of-pocket costs for existing health care services just so that new billion-dollar medical technology can be phased in to the health system 25 years from now.

Besides, what we see isn't that there's something special about military/aerospace research that trickles down to health care and other sectors. Really, what we see is that massive government-funded R&D programs, when focused on just about any particular area, trickle out to other sectors of the economy. For example technology advances that start in the medical field can and do trickle down to military/aerospace. The only question is which sector gets access to the technology first, and which sector is trying to adapt it to their own purposes afterwards.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Yeah, I'm not saying that hasn't been the case. But medical innovations and access to health care are not synonymous. I'm not willing to endure cuts that close hospitals, increase wait times orout-of-pocket costs for existing health care services just so that new billion-dollar medical technology can be phased in to the health system 25 years from now.

Given that Canada is behind on the acquisition and broad distribution of medical technology (this from a topic where Andy and I got into that at length) you're not the only person who feels that way. It would seem that Health Canada is just trying to pay for what they can right now while not investing in the future. That's not a slam, mind you, I'm just acknowldging that your line of thinking would appear to prevail in HC.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Besides, what we see isn't that there's something special about military/aerospace research that trickles down to health care and other sectors.

Respectfully, you're wrong. The entire field of trauma medicine didn't exist prior to the US Civil War and advances in trauma care typically come from the military. Ambulances are a military creation. Air ambulances are a military creation. Modern prosthetics are a military creation. &tc.

Paradoxically, one of the reasons the US far and away outstrips everyone else on trauma care is because of the depth of military expertise and techniques that have transferred from the battle field to the emergency room.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Really, what we see is that massive government-funded R&D programs, when focused on just about any particular area, trickle out to other sectors of the economy. For example technology advances that start in the medical field can and do trickle down to military/aerospace.

In the US medical advances are often implemented in the military long before the FDA approves them for civilian use. I can prove that because I still have a left leg.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The only question is which sector gets access to the technology first, and which sector is trying to adapt it to their own purposes afterwards.

I don't see such a comparmentalization in medical techniques or technology here and if it happens in Canada then that's news to me. To my experience the community of doctors and medical practitioners is quite open and I've never heard of anyone witholding information from anyone else over petty turf battles. I'd be stunned if this were the case up your way.

[bootlegga]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Yeah, I'm not saying that hasn't been the case. But medical innovations and access to health care are not synonymous. I'm not willing to endure cuts that close hospitals, increase wait times orout-of-pocket costs for existing health care services just so that new billion-dollar medical technology can be phased in to the health system 25 years from now.

Besides, what we see isn't that there's something special about military/aerospace research that trickles down to health care and other sectors. Really, what we see is that massive government-funded R&D programs, when focused on just about any particular area, trickle out to other sectors of the economy. For example technology advances that start in the medical field can and do trickle down to military/aerospace. The only question is which sector gets access to the technology first, and which sector is trying to adapt it to their own purposes afterwards.

Guess you didn't click my link...

$1:

Infrared ear thermometers

Diatek Corporation and NASA developed an aural thermometer which measures the Thermal Radiation emitted by the eardrum, similar to the way the temperature of stars and planets is measured. This method avoids contact with mucous membranes, and permits rapid temperature measurement of newborn or incapacitated patients. NASA supported the Diatek Corporation through the Technology Affiliates Program.

Ventricular assist device

Collaboration between NASA, Dr. Michael DeBakey, Dr. George Noon, and MicroMed Technology Inc. resulted in a heart pump for patients awaiting heart transplants. The MicroMed DeBakey ventricular assist device (VAD) functions as a “bridge to heart transplant” by pumping blood until a donor heart is available. The pump is approximately one-tenth the size of other currently marketed pulsatile VADs. Because of the pump’s small size, fewer patients developed device-related infections. It can operate up to 8 hours on batteries, giving patients the mobility to do normal, everyday activities.

Artificial limbs

Advancements such as Environmental Robots Inc.’s development of artificial muscle systems[6] for use in NASA space robotic and extravehicular activities have been adapted to create more functionally dynamic artificial limbs. Other commercial uses of NASA’s temper foam include moldable materials offering the natural look and feel of flesh, as well as preventing friction between the skin and the prosthesis, and heat/moisture buildup.

And as Bart noted, many, many trauma-related medical procedures and technologies came straight from the military over the past 50 years. Military R&D (and by extension, space R&D) developed dozens of technologies modern society simply couldn't run as efficiently without.

I agree they take time to filter out to the general population, but when they do they transform society - think things like microwaves, PCs, the Internet, etc. If we skimp on science, we'll pay for it down the road.