[Newsbot]

Title: Solar has won. Even if coal were free to burn, power stations couldn't compete
Category: Business
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2014-07-08 09:03:27

[DanSC]

Awesome! A decentralized energy market, where individuals can sell electricity produced on their own property, is a conservative's dream. I'm sure it will be regulated to death soon.

[andyt]

I guess we can use it to add to hydro in the summer. Not sure if it's worth building all that infrastructure for that tho. AZ should be golden.

[Thanos]

Certain jurisdictions, usually in red states, are punishing people who install solar panels with extra fees and surcharges. I'm assuming that this is due to some political motive along the lines of "coal is super! burn more diesel instead!" that some of the anti-environment whackjobs have as part of what they consider to be a philosophy.

I was also wondering in the left-wing jurisdictions how long individual installation of solar panels would be tolerated. Solar tech seems to become more efficient and capable of greater power collection every year. The Germans (yay! ) are currently proving that even a temperate/cool weather country can use solar to massively move their utilities away from coal/natural gas. I can't see places where the city relies on the local utility to generate revenue for them to allow the individual home owner to eventually come off the grid altogether if their own solar panels remove the need for the person to have to buy from the utility at all. It'd basically wipe out the utilities altogether as a cash cow for local politicians for their funding.

Interesting times anyway. Will be watching closely as to how the most intelligent and logical method of energy generation that will ever exist, and one that will last for another billion years too, fares against the stupid politics that come from the no-sense fringes of the political spectrum.

[BeaverFever]

Wynne to Hudak: "Told ya"

[DrCaleb]

DanSC DanSC:

Awesome! A decentralized energy market, where individuals can sell electricity produced on their own property, is a conservatives dream.

I kind of like the new Stirling design that can be installed in a home for about $10k. Solar sounds promising, but in the deep dark winter it wouldn't be so great.

http://www.canadaka.net/link.php?id=84739

GE had a fuel cell that had similar capabilities, but it wasn't spec'd to -40, and never really became commercially available.

[bootlegga]

Lots of power companies are helping customers install solar panels - I think Epcor and Enmax here in Edmonton do it. You have to sign up for a 10 or 15 year commitment and shell a few grand, but you do get to sell your power back to them. While solar might not be as efficient in winter as it is in summer, places like Alberta, which is very sunny all year long, can still provide some power.

I've always wondered why someone hasn't found some way to generate electricity with the whirlybirds found on most homes. While it might not produce much, something is still better than nothing.

I saw a really great video a while back on smart grids that showed some really amazing possibilities, where your car and home generate power and sell it back to the grid when you're not using them (using solar/wind power).

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I've always wondered why someone hasn't found some way to generate electricity with the whirlybirds found on most homes. While it might not produce much, something is still better than nothing.

I actually thought about that for some time. Use a powerful permanent magnet as the 'core', copper windings on the rotating bit to make a 'generator'. But I don't think the mass of them is sufficient to keep the generator running unless the wind speed is really high. And if that's the case, then a small propeller blade style to harness the wind would be better.

bootlegga bootlegga:

I saw a really great video a while back on smart grids that showed some really amazing possibilities, where your car and home generate power and sell it back to the grid when you're not using them (using solar/wind power).

I saw some building designs that used plug in hybrids in the basement to supplement office electricity during peak hours, offsetting costs, or as emergency power sources - and recharged them when electricity was cheaper so they still got you home at night.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I've always wondered why someone hasn't found some way to generate electricity with the whirlybirds found on most homes. While it might not produce much, something is still better than nothing.

I actually thought about that for some time. Use a powerful permanent magnet as the 'core', copper windings on the rotating bit to make a 'generator'. But I don't think the mass of them is sufficient to keep the generator running unless the wind speed is really high. And if that's the case, then a small propeller blade style to harness the wind would be better.

Even on relatively calm days, most whirlybirds spin, maybe not much, but they do move.

I'm sure you'd need to do some work, as a standard whirlybird wouldn't produce much, but I'm sure some smart guy could come up with something cheap that could produce a few watts/hour.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I saw a really great video a while back on smart grids that showed some really amazing possibilities, where your car and home generate power and sell it back to the grid when you're not using them (using solar/wind power).

I saw some building designs that used plug in hybrids in the basement to supplement office electricity during peak hours, offsetting costs, or as emergency power sources - and recharged them when electricity was cheaper so they still got you home at night.

Sounds a lot like the video I saw. Everything was interconnected - of coursethe kicker is how much a system like that would cost to retrofit, although it could probably be done piecemeal as we replace older buildings and infrastructure.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

Certain jurisdictions, usually in red states, are punishing people who install solar panels with extra fees and surcharges.

Link please?

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos Thanos:

Certain jurisdictions, usually in red states, are punishing people who install solar panels with extra fees and surcharges.

Link please?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/solarc ... 2014-07-02

[jj2424]

LOL and those who think local governments aren't going to miss the taxes on conventional power Governments are addicted to taxes.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DanSC DanSC:

Awesome! A decentralized energy market, where individuals can sell electricity produced on their own property, is a conservative's dream. I'm sure it will be regulated to death soon.

Not quite. Hardly anyone is selling their excess power generation because what they get for it isn't worth a pot to piss in. And according to the article, govts have permitted home and business owners to generate as much power as they want for themselves, but with the condition that they can't sell any excess.

In Ontario, despite BF's childish jab at Hudak, the Liberals have shown time and time again that they are not the least bit interested in allowing individuals to become energy independent. Why? Because they'd not only lose out on the money from power being used, they'd also lose out on some sweet delivery and connection charges as well. The Ontario Liberals are only interested in green energy insofar as they can make money from it.
As a result, Ontario has some of the highest hydro rates in the free world. Green energy did result in a net reduction of GHG emissions in Ontario, unfortunately the bulk of the reduction was a result of much of the remaining manufacturing and industrial sector bailing out of Ontario due to exorbitant hydro rates.
All while the Wynned-Bag blames Harper for Ontario's economic woes.

[wildrosegirl]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I've always wondered why someone hasn't found some way to generate electricity with the whirlybirds found on most homes. While it might not produce much, something is still better than nothing.

I actually thought about that for some time. Use a powerful permanent magnet as the 'core', copper windings on the rotating bit to make a 'generator'. But I don't think the mass of them is sufficient to keep the generator running unless the wind speed is really high. And if that's the case, then a small propeller blade style to harness the wind would be better.

bootlegga bootlegga:

I saw a really great video a while back on smart grids that showed some really amazing possibilities, where your car and home generate power and sell it back to the grid when you're not using them (using solar/wind power).

I saw some building designs that used plug in hybrids in the basement to supplement office electricity during peak hours, offsetting costs, or as emergency power sources - and recharged them when electricity was cheaper so they still got you home at night.

I'm not sure if you two would remember (this was several years ago) there was a company that produced these converter gadgets that you hooked into the exhaust system of your natural gas appliances (mainly furnace and hot water tank), which converted the emissions into electricity and fed it back into your house. I was researching the cost to install, etc., and found that the plant where they were manufactured had just been flattened by a passing hurricane.

Either of you remember that?

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I kind of like the new Stirling design that can be installed in a home for about $10k. Solar sounds promising, but in the deep dark winter it wouldn't be so great.

I wonder if you could just turn an entire attic into a Stirling?

Your attic will always be a hotter temp than the ambient, providing a temp dif, and performance will just increase in the winter (larger temp dif)...only question is if a low efficiency stirling, the size of an attic, can power a home?