[Newsbot]

Title: Russia prepares to attack ISIS as Vladimir Putin deploys missile launchers to Syria
Category: Military
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2015-10-15 00:24:17

[GreenTiger]

It is good to see that the most powerful man in the world is seriously taking on ISIS.

[andyt]

Well, it's not just ISIS but any one opposing Assad. Iran, with Russian cover has been able to sent 1000 troops to the region as well. So, we'll have a strongman in Syria again. Might set back the terrorists some, but a stronger Syria. Iran, and Hezbollah will be a much greater threat to Israel. My guess is he'll swallow up Lebanon as well, so that will put him that much more around Israel. Also, Russia and Assad will go after the Kurds.

So just seeing this as a positive might be overly optimistic.

[Thanos]

Nothing but positives really. If they succeed in destroying ISIS with the kind of brutality the West simply won't, and can't, engage in then terrific. If they get quagmire in Syria as badly as they did in Afghanistan in the 1980's then terrific too. Rudy Giuliani was on FOX today doing the whining about how there should be a hundred thousand US troops there doing the job instead. Too hell with him and the rest of the chickenhawks pushing the same thing because that part of the world is simply not worth dying for at all. If Russian and Iran want to do it because it makes their dicks hard then more power to them. At least it won't be our money and our soldiers lives being foolishly wasted this time around.

[andyt]

doubt they'll have a quagmire there. Much different than Astan. Also my impression is that the US arming the mujahedin is what turned the tide in Astan - the US isn't arming the rebels with those sorts of weapons in Syria. As for ISIS, they're just one of many jihadi groups - trying to destroy jihad is like playing whack a mole.

Russia and Iran unrestrained by Western pushback (not military, political) I think could easily return Assad to dominance. I'm not sure that will be such a good thing either. Doubt Israel would be happy. And ISIS always has Iraq to fall back on unless the Russians/Iranians are feeling really ambitious.

"if there was a solution to this problem, we would have had it by now." to paraphrase big brother.

[Thanos]

The Iraqi government, such as it actually is one, is already a partner in this entire enterprise. There are Russian military advisors in Baghdad and it's been the Iranian military that stiffened the backbone of the Iraqi militias which had the greatest successes in the pushback against ISIS. Iraq is now probably out of the US sphere of influence, or at least far more favourable now to partnership with Russia on oil/gas/aid than they are to the Americans. In essence the US will have spent about 2 trillion dollars and 5000 soldiers lives to ensure that Iraq became a stauncher ally of Russia even more than they were under Saddam. And in the ultimate perversity to embarrass the Americans, if this adventure the Russians are engaging in succeeds in crushing ISIS all that will result is that a strong Shia alliance, with Iran as the dominant partner, has come into existence as a buffer/counter the Sunni states led by the Saudis.

Way to go, Bushies. You really succeeded quite well in achieving the exact opposite of what you allegedly intended when you went after Saddam in 2003.

[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

And in the ultimate perversity to embarrass the Americans, if this adventure the Russians are engaging in succeeds in crushing ISIS all that will result is that a strong Shia alliance, with Iran as the dominant partner, has come into existence as a buffer/counter the Sunni states led by the Saudis.

I still have my doubts about "crushing" jihad, ie it will pop up again with a different name, but that buffer thingy sounds kinda good - maybe they can keep busy fighting each other. Of course they do it by proxies, ie we're back to terror groups. And with Russia backing Iran in all this, will that make the US suck Saudi dick even harder?

[N_Fiddledog]

You guys seem to have missed the more fascinating bit from that article.

$1:

The mobile multiple rocket launcher - TOS-1A - features thermobaric weapons which can destroy eight city blocks in one strike, causing indiscriminate damage.

The TOS-1A Solntsepyok(meaning 'blazing sun') arrived in Syria earlier this month, according to the IBTimes, citing a Russian newspaper.

The TOS-1A Heavy Flamethrower System, also nicknamed Buratino after a Russian children's book character, can destroy several city blocks in one strike,

The thermobaric warheads, also called vacuum or fuel-air explosives, spreads a flammable liquid around a target and then ignites the liquid.

The blast is lethal in itself, but the vacuum that follows the explosion is strong enough to cause deadly internal damage, including rupturing of vital organs, such as the lungs.

A study by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency from as early as 1993, writes that the effect of a thermobaric weapon on targets in confined spaces, such as buildings, bunkers and tunnels, is 'immense'.

'Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringe are likely to suffer many internal, and thus invisible injuries, including burst eardrums and crushed inner ear organs, severe concussions, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness.'


The TOS-1A has reportedly been used by the Russian Army since 2001 and has also been exported to Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Iraq where it has already been used to fight ISIS.


This follows reports that Russia also reportedly moved the TOS-1 system into rebel-held Ukraine earlier this month.

[andyt]

I very much doubt that either Assad or Russia distinguish among rebels. They just want to wipe them all out and keep Assad in power. Since he represents a very small sect, and the brutality he's already shown toward the rebels, they're going to have to do an awful lot of killing before the remaining rebels give. Probably sowing the seeds for further war down the line, since there's a lot more Sunnis than Shia, and the Sunnis certainly don't shy away from barbaric killing either. In the short term the Russians may force a "peace" with military means. Doubt it will last tho.

[Thanos]

Thermobarics are nothing new. The Americans were using them against Al Qaeda and Taliban that were holed up in caves. Vicious weapons being used on a vicious enemy isn't just ironic, it's practically poetic.

[herbie]

Yeah that's how a bomb kills you. The normal ones spray shrapnel along with it. Your point is?

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

Thermobarics are nothing new. The Americans were using them against Al Qaeda and Taliban that were holed up in caves. Vicious weapons being used on a vicious enemy isn't just ironic, it's practically poetic.

That's the question though. Who is the enemy. I know Russia is saying ISIS.

I remember hearing how the FSA was joining with the Kurds to fight ISIS. They were having success. They were moving in on Raqqa (ISIS central), then the Turks attacked - supposedly ISIS but all we saw blowing up were Kurds. Then the Russians moved in and they were supposedly going to finish off ISIS, but no wait, the only ones we saw blowing up were the FSA rebels who had been allied with the Kurds against ISIS.

Now we're hearing about this.

$1:

Thousands of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria in recent days, as forces loyal to President Assad prepare a major assault on rebel-held territory in Aleppo. The Syrian government, bolstered by the new arrivals and two weeks of intense Russian airstrikes on rebel positions, is determined to win back territory around the country’s biggest city, and once its commercial hub.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 93501.html

Aleppo is FSA and other rebels, but not ISIS - yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... %93present)

So now Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and what's left of the Syrian army are moving in on the rebels in Allepo. Not Ragga where ISIS hangs out - Allepo.

Wanna know who else is moving in on the guys who were helping the Kurds to put down ISIS?

$1:

Islamic State militants battled rival insurgent groups on Wednesday north of the city of Aleppo, where officials say the Syrian army is preparing an offensive of its own backed by Iranian soldiers and Russian jets.

A rebel fighter and a group monitoring the war said Islamic State fighters took control of parts of the towns of Ahras and Tel Jabin, about 12 km (8 miles) north of Aleppo, before being pushed back.

Gains by Islamic State north of Aleppo would threaten the supply lines of rival rebels inside the city, which is divided between insurgents and government forces. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the road used by Aleppo residents heading north to the Turkish border remained closed on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/ ... A320151015

So it sounds like ISIS is moving in on Aleppo from the north, while the Syrians, Iranians, and Hezbollah move in on the Rebels and residents of Aleppo from the South. The government force allies claim the odd skirmish with ISIS, but who knows.

They're doing this with Russian air support. Oh yeah and now apparently, Thermobaric explosives. According to the description these devices are brutal, devastating, and indiscriminate. And you did read that bit about the "Residents" of Aleppo, right?

So knowing all that I'm supposed to say, "Yay! Go Russians. Who cares about ISIS? Thermobaric the Aleppo residents then back to the Ukraine. Woo Hoo." Is that it?

[Thanos]

So what? From the Saigon government to the Somoza regime through to Ahmed Chalabi the US supported the biggest losers on the planet. What do you want me to do here? Get all torqued up neo-con style because Assad and Putin are going to wipe out the Syrian 'moderates', a group that's been almost as inept as the 'Founding Fathers' of Iraq turned out be? Is this another one of those moments where we all have to go into 'gotta support democracy everywhere' even though that democracy has no chance at all of taking root in a shithole like Syria?

No our problem, not our fight, and not worth a single penny that's been spent on it no matter what the chickenhawks of the American right wing say.

[N_Fiddledog]

What I'd like to point out, is the sentiment of "Go Russia. Thermobaric those bastards," most likely would have little to do with ISIS.

If you like the idea of the rebels and residents of Allepo getting thermo bombed, fine. That can be your thing. What I'm saying is I'm not sold on this idea the Russians are the great ISIS killers, and that's what it's about.

If the Russians are burning and sucking the air out of the streets of Allepo with thermobaric bombs it's not ISIS frying.

Some of us are still waiting to see the evidence of ISIS being the Russian target. Tell me when they get to Raqqa.

[Thanos]

The Russians have always been fairly effective with the tactic of shooting everyone in sight instead of wasting time trying to sort out the greater assholes from the lesser ones. The rebels and residents of places like Aleppo are also the ones related to the ones infiltrating Europe over the past year who are behaving like savages. In this part of the world there are no good guys, at least not in the way that the American media and chickenhawks keep pretending there is. The "good guys" in Egypt, for example, chose with their first democratic act to vote in a militant Islamist government which made the entire area give a big sigh in relief when the military overthrew and tossed the lot of them in prison. Those 'moderates' in Syria would probably do the same damn thing. Bashir Assad's father basically had to use the military to destroy Hama thirty three years ago with artillery and airstrikes because the same kind of rebels took over the city. The rebels probably aren't as bad as ISIS but they're still Islamists too and nothing good would result from them taking over the country. Really, the best and only right thing to do is to stay away from ALL of those crazy bastards altogether. To borrow blatantly from Bismarck, the entirety of the Muslim world isn't worth the life of a single soldier from the Western world. Fuck, if the Russians want to turn the area into their playpen let them go right ahead.