[Newsbot]

Title: Pure ecstasy can be �safe' if consumed responsibly
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: OnTheIce
Date: 2012-06-14 06:03:29
Canadian

[OnTheIce]

It was only a matter of time....

[Zipperfish]

Good luck with that, Perry. If you can't even get something virtually harmless like pot legalized over the course of decades, people aren't going to be chomping at the bit to legalize MDMA.

The problem isn't the science or the health aspects. The problem is moral. Recreational drug use is a sin. The law against pot is a morality law, not a health one. Same with MDMA.

[andyt]

Pot is certainly not virtually harmless. No drug is. But prohibition doesn't work, otherwise we should be moving to banning a dangerous drug like C2H6O.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

It was only a matter of time....

Why? He's correct. 'Pure' extacy is safe, and there is no such thing as 'pure' street extacy. You take street drugs at your own risk.

You might get high, you might develop a 41 degree fever and die. Personally, I'll stick to good whisky and a cigar.

[Curtman]

andyt andyt:

Pot is certainly not virtually harmless. No drug is. But prohibition doesn't work, otherwise we should be moving to banning a dangerous drug like C2H6O.

Especially not ecstasy. Its users rapidly develop an affinity for terrible music.

[ShepherdsDog]

I've posted this before, but I'll mention it again ecstsy(pure) has shown great promise when it comes to treating clinical depression. There was a British ER doctor a few years ago who advocated decriminalizing it and criminalizing alcohol based on what he saw in trauma wards. According to him far more young people died from alcohol poisoning and other alcohol related events(car accidents), while E caused very few deaths, and as mentioned, this was what was added rather than the MDMA itself.

[Curtman]

Treating depression?

Speed and Ecstasy Associated With Depression in Teenagers

$1:

A five year study conducted with thousands of local teenagers by University of Montreal researchers reveals that those who used speed (meth/ampthetamine) or ecstasy (MDMA) at fifteen or sixteen years of age were significantly more likely to suffer elevated depressive symptoms the following year.
...
The researchers worked with data provided by 3,880 students enrolled at schools in disadvantaged areas of Quebec. The participants were asked a series of questions that covered their drug use -- what they had used in the past year or ever in their life -- and their home life. Depressive symptoms were established by using a standard epidemiological evaluation tool. 310 respondents reported using MDMA (8%) and 451 used meth/amphetamines (11.6%). 584 of all respondents were identified as having elevated depressive symptoms (15.1%). The range of questions that the researchers asked enabled them to adjust their statistics to take into account other factors likely to affect the psychological state of the student, such as whether there was any conflict between the parents and the participant. "This study takes into account many more influencing factors than other research that has been undertaken regarding the association between drugs and depression in teenagers," Brière said. "However, it does have its limitations, in particular the fact that we cannot entirely rule out the effects of drug combinations and that we do not know the exact contents of MDMA and meth/amphetamine pills."

Possibly there's a causality problem here where the drug isn't causing the depression, but the depression causes the seeking of the drug. Never tried the stuff myself, but I've always assumed ecstasy users were burning out a receptor in the brain causing the depression. Clearly there's a link though. What research have you seen that shows great promise in treating depression?

[ShepherdsDog]

This article is more about ketamine being used to treat depression while here is a CNN report on the use of psychedelics, including E, being used to treat PTSD and K. This is a brief report on the use of MDMA used in clinical trials.

This a blurb on it in Wiki

$1:

The possible therapeutic potential of MDMA is being tested in several ongoing studies, some sponsored by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Studies in the U.S., Switzerland, and Israel are evaluating the efficacy of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for treating those diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or anxiety related to cancer.

Small doses of MDMA are used as an entheogen to enhance meditation by some Buddhist Monks

The important thing is that these chemicals are being carefully administered. Quality and quantity are paramount. Self medicating could likely lead to a worsening of symptoms, but abuse/misuse of current anti deppressants and anti anxiety drugs also cuse reactions too, including suicide, mania, depression etc.

MAPS link to MDMA clinical experiments

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Pot is certainly not virtually harmless. No drug is. But prohibition doesn't work, otherwise we should be moving to banning a dangerous drug like C2H6O.

Well you can state your completely unsusbstantiated opinion. The facts are that people don't die from it and don't kill for it. Most people just outgrow it. The conclusion of virtually every major study conducted on it since the late 19th century is that it is overwhelmingly a personal risk, as opposed to a societal risk, and that it's not even that great of a personal risk. It is one of the most studid drugs in history, much more studied than most prescription medication avaialable today.

The problem for folks like you who try to make this drug appear more harmful than it actually is, is that most Canadians have tried pot at one time or another, and the vast majority of Canadians have known people who smoke it, and so they know experientially that the fuss about it is completely hyped and inaccurate.

And there are plenty of virtually harmless drugs out there. Aspirin. Caffeine.

[Curtman]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

Pot is certainly not virtually harmless. No drug is. But prohibition doesn't work, otherwise we should be moving to banning a dangerous drug like C2H6O.

Well you can state your completely unsusbstantiated opinion. The facts are that people don't die from it and don't kill for it. Most people just outgrow it. The conclusion of virtually every major study conducted on it since the late 19th century is that it is overwhelmingly a personal risk, as opposed to a societal risk, and that it's not even that great of a personal risk. It is one of the most studid drugs in history, much more studied than most prescription medication avaialable today.

The problem for folks like you who try to make this drug appear more harmful than it actually is, is that most Canadians have tried pot at one time or another, and the vast majority of Canadians have known people who smoke it, and so they know experientially that the fuss about it is completely hyped and inaccurate.

And there are plenty of virtually harmless drugs out there. Aspirin. Caffeine.

Well from past discussions on this forum, we can conclude that smoking pot and driving is at least half as dangerous as talking on your phone while driving using a bluetooth headset.

[Zipperfish]

Curtman Curtman:

Well from past discussions on this forum, we can conclude that smoking pot and driving is at least half as dangerous as talking on your phone while driving using a bluetooth headset.

Yes, and I concede that pot smoking while jumping off the top of a thirty storey building would result in harmful outcomes. Pot smoking while immersing yourself in boiling oil is also dangerous. Studies have shown that people who smoke even one joint will die within 100 years.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

Pot is certainly not virtually harmless. No drug is. But prohibition doesn't work, otherwise we should be moving to banning a dangerous drug like C2H6O.

Well you can state your completely unsusbstantiated opinion. The facts are that people don't die from it and don't kill for it. Most people just outgrow it. The conclusion of virtually every major study conducted on it since the late 19th century is that it is overwhelmingly a personal risk, as opposed to a societal risk, and that it's not even that great of a personal risk. It is one of the most studid drugs in history, much more studied than most prescription medication avaialable today.

The problem for folks like you who try to make this drug appear more harmful than it actually is, is that most Canadians have tried pot at one time or another, and the vast majority of Canadians have known people who smoke it, and so they know experientially that the fuss about it is completely hyped and inaccurate.

And there are plenty of virtually harmless drugs out there. Aspirin. Caffeine.

$1:

I consider it interesting since acetylsalicylic acid (most commonly purchased as Aspirin) is actually quite dangerous. A fairly common class of allergens is known as the salicylates. Aspirin, being acetylsalicylic acid, is a salicylate and for those who are sensitive enough, it can cause very serious allergic reactions, even life threatening and fatal ones.
Additionally, acetylsalicylic acid is quite irritating to the gastric mucosa (lining of the stomach). It can quite easily erode the lining resulting in ulceration and gastric bleeding, which again, can be serious, even fatal. This is a very high risk for anyone who accidentally or deliberately takes an overdose of the drug.

http://the-health-gazette.com/157/do-yo ... f-aspirin/

$1:

As with most drugs there are potential risks as well as benefits in taking them regularly. Some people develop a severe and potentially life-threatening allergic reaction and are completely unable to take aspirin or any of its derivatives. Other people may also need to be especially careful:

If you have asthma there is a small theoretical risk that it could become worse with aspirin, so watch out for increased wheeziness.People who have had problems with stomach or duodenal ulcers should only take aspirin with another drug to protect their stomach lining, and under medical supervision.In high doses aspirin can damage the kidneys.Aspirin's antiplatelet activity can actually increase the risk of damaged blood vessels bleeding so it is unsuitable for people with uncontrolled high blood pressure, liver or kidney disease, or stomach ulcers.Children under 12 should not take aspirin because they can develop a potentially life-threatening condition called Reye's syndrome in which many body organs fail and intensive life support therapy is needed.

Read more: Benefits and dangers of aspirin | iVillage UK http://www.ivillage.co.uk/benefits-and- ... z1xqUVCt6s

$1:

If aspirin were invented today...

BY WALTER OLSON ON NOVEMBER 29, 2005 12:10 AM


No way it could get through the legal gauntlet. "If you were somehow able to change history so that aspirin had never been discovered until this year, I can guarantee you that it would have died in the lab. No modern drug development organization would touch it." Its risks, after all, are higher than those of many drugs that have been targeted by successful litigation campaigns or whose sale the FDA has prohibited.

http://www.pointoflaw.com/archives/2005 ... n-were.php

$1:

Physical Effects of Excess Caffeine
Ingesting more than 500 to 600 mg of caffeine per day is considered heavy use and may lead to physical side effects caused by both the addictive potential and stimulating effects of caffeine. Heavy use and abuse may result in restlessness, rapid heart rate, nausea, muscle tremors and insomnia. Lack of sleep from caffeine use can lead to ongoing sleep disturbances, fatigue, and a decline in physical performance and energy levels.
Caffeine Addiction and Mood
Caffeine abuse can eventually lead to addiction, and you will need to ingest caffeine on a regular basis to avoid unpleasant withdrawal symptoms and mood changes. Caffeine abuse can lead to psychological symptoms such as anxiety and irritability, and withdrawal from caffeine causes marked nervousness and depression leading to reduced motivation and sleeplessness.
Expert Insights
The Mayo Clinic notes that careful regulation of caffeine intake is the best way to avoid the potential of abuse and addiction. If you are already consuming large amounts of caffeine and suffering from symptoms, you should gradually reduce your daily consumption by selecting beverages with a lower caffeine content and alternating coffee or teas with decaffeinated or caffeine-free options such as decaf coffee, herbal teas or water.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/53351 ... z1xqVXXz6w

$1:

The most serious potential side effect of caffeine is cardiac arrhythmias. Study after study has shown that caffeine can not only cause frequent palpitations, which is the result of an irregular heart beat, but also, an abnormal rhythm of the heart called atrial fibrillation. I was visiting with a young pilot this past month that had a spontaneous onset of atrial fibrillation and the only thing he had done was drink an energy drink. This resolved spontaneously within a few hours; however, the consequences were extreme because FAA did not allow him to fly for the next six months. It is important to realize that nearly 50% of the ER visits noted in the study above was because the energy drink user experience severe heart palpitations due to the arrhythmia they had caused.


Caffeine has long been known to have an addictive quality. In fact, as your caffeine consumption increases, the stimulatory effect of this substance becomes less and less effective. Therefore, many individuals find themselves needing to take in more and more caffeine via coffee, sodas, or energy drinks to achieve the same effect. This is a typical characteristic of any addictive drug, alcohol, or a product like caffeine. You need to keep increasing the amount you are consuming to get the same stimulatory effect. The addictive quality of caffeine is very apparent when individuals try to quit. I have found in my medical practice that it is not a very wise decision to quit your consumption of caffeine abruptly. This will lead to headache, fatigue, moodiness, and increased irritability. If you decide to quit caffeine or to decrease your consumption of caffeine, you need to do this slowly over a 3 to 4 week period of time in order to avoid most of these side effects.

http://www.healthconceptsint.com/in-the ... erous-drug



Now, you have studies that say marijuana is "virtually harmless?"

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

$1:

I consider it interesting since acetylsalicylic acid (most commonly purchased as Aspirin) is actually quite dangerous. A fairly common class of allergens is known as the salicylates. Aspirin, being acetylsalicylic acid, is a salicylate and for those who are sensitive enough, it can cause very serious allergic reactions, even life threatening and fatal ones.
Additionally, acetylsalicylic acid is quite irritating to the gastric mucosa (lining of the stomach). It can quite easily erode the lining resulting in ulceration and gastric bleeding, which again, can be serious, even fatal. This is a very high risk for anyone who accidentally or deliberately takes an overdose of the drug.

http://the-health-gazette.com/157/do-yo ... f-aspirin/

$1:

As with most drugs there are potential risks as well as benefits in taking them regularly. Some people develop a severe and potentially life-threatening allergic reaction and are completely unable to take aspirin or any of its derivatives. Other people may also need to be especially careful:

If you have asthma there is a small theoretical risk that it could become worse with aspirin, so watch out for increased wheeziness.People who have had problems with stomach or duodenal ulcers should only take aspirin with another drug to protect their stomach lining, and under medical supervision.In high doses aspirin can damage the kidneys.Aspirin's antiplatelet activity can actually increase the risk of damaged blood vessels bleeding so it is unsuitable for people with uncontrolled high blood pressure, liver or kidney disease, or stomach ulcers.Children under 12 should not take aspirin because they can develop a potentially life-threatening condition called Reye's syndrome in which many body organs fail and intensive life support therapy is needed.

Read more: Benefits and dangers of aspirin | iVillage UK http://www.ivillage.co.uk/benefits-and- ... z1xqUVCt6s

$1:

If aspirin were invented today...

BY WALTER OLSON ON NOVEMBER 29, 2005 12:10 AM


No way it could get through the legal gauntlet. "If you were somehow able to change history so that aspirin had never been discovered until this year, I can guarantee you that it would have died in the lab. No modern drug development organization would touch it." Its risks, after all, are higher than those of many drugs that have been targeted by successful litigation campaigns or whose sale the FDA has prohibited.

http://www.pointoflaw.com/archives/2005 ... n-were.php

$1:

Physical Effects of Excess Caffeine
Ingesting more than 500 to 600 mg of caffeine per day is considered heavy use and may lead to physical side effects caused by both the addictive potential and stimulating effects of caffeine. Heavy use and abuse may result in restlessness, rapid heart rate, nausea, muscle tremors and insomnia. Lack of sleep from caffeine use can lead to ongoing sleep disturbances, fatigue, and a decline in physical performance and energy levels.
Caffeine Addiction and Mood
Caffeine abuse can eventually lead to addiction, and you will need to ingest caffeine on a regular basis to avoid unpleasant withdrawal symptoms and mood changes. Caffeine abuse can lead to psychological symptoms such as anxiety and irritability, and withdrawal from caffeine causes marked nervousness and depression leading to reduced motivation and sleeplessness.
Expert Insights
The Mayo Clinic notes that careful regulation of caffeine intake is the best way to avoid the potential of abuse and addiction. If you are already consuming large amounts of caffeine and suffering from symptoms, you should gradually reduce your daily consumption by selecting beverages with a lower caffeine content and alternating coffee or teas with decaffeinated or caffeine-free options such as decaf coffee, herbal teas or water.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/53351 ... z1xqVXXz6w

$1:

The most serious potential side effect of caffeine is cardiac arrhythmias. Study after study has shown that caffeine can not only cause frequent palpitations, which is the result of an irregular heart beat, but also, an abnormal rhythm of the heart called atrial fibrillation. I was visiting with a young pilot this past month that had a spontaneous onset of atrial fibrillation and the only thing he had done was drink an energy drink. This resolved spontaneously within a few hours; however, the consequences were extreme because FAA did not allow him to fly for the next six months. It is important to realize that nearly 50% of the ER visits noted in the study above was because the energy drink user experience severe heart palpitations due to the arrhythmia they had caused.


Caffeine has long been known to have an addictive quality. In fact, as your caffeine consumption increases, the stimulatory effect of this substance becomes less and less effective. Therefore, many individuals find themselves needing to take in more and more caffeine via coffee, sodas, or energy drinks to achieve the same effect. This is a typical characteristic of any addictive drug, alcohol, or a product like caffeine. You need to keep increasing the amount you are consuming to get the same stimulatory effect. The addictive quality of caffeine is very apparent when individuals try to quit. I have found in my medical practice that it is not a very wise decision to quit your consumption of caffeine abruptly. This will lead to headache, fatigue, moodiness, and increased irritability. If you decide to quit caffeine or to decrease your consumption of caffeine, you need to do this slowly over a 3 to 4 week period of time in order to avoid most of these side effects.

http://www.healthconceptsint.com/in-the ... erous-drug



Now, you have studies that say marijuana is "virtually harmless?"

Virtually harmless, Andy. Not harmless. I agree there is no such thing as a harmless drug.

By virtually harmless I mean that it's harm to society and to most individuals is small to the point of being insiginificant. Millions of people drink caffeine everyday. I'm not a newshound but I've never heard of anyone dying from it. I imagine there are billions of ASA tablets on the market in North America alone, yet aspirin mortality is exceedingly rare (excepting cases where people take it commit suicide).

And frankly, if you want to ban aspirin and cffeine, you'd have to ban all over the counter medications and any substance (peanuts, shellfish, chocolate) that can cause adverse effects in people. You best be careful though, because when they were done banning all of those things, they might take a look at bicycles. Those things can be dangeous you know.

[ShepherdsDog]

Only you can prevent hydrotoxicity!!

Don't Drink......water. The refreshing killer