[Newsbot]

Title: Pierre Poilievre calls for public safety minister to resign over Bernardo prison revelations
Category: Political
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2023-06-15 06:48:25
Canadian

[Scape]

Correctional services did their due dilligance, frankly maximum security is not the best tool for the job and I detest the idea that unqualified polical hacks have a call on policy and proceedures.

That said the minister being warned twice and either the minister staff dropped the ball or were terrified of telling the boss doesn't fly. This sounds like the PMO is overload because they don't want independant ministers and this slipped thru.

[DrCaleb]

I don't get why the Minister of Public Safety even should be told what Corrections Canada plans on doing within their authority. As you say, Politicians have no sway over Corrections Canada. If Bernardo were a threat to the safety of Canadians, he'd still be in maximum security with our other famous killers.

People are put into prison as punishment, not for punishment.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

People are put into prison as punishment, not for punishment.

That's not necessarily true for many with a far right/CPC/UCP/TBA mindset - often, from their POV, the entire reason for prison is to inflict pain and misery on prisoners to exact some form of 'justice' (AKA vengeance) on criminals.

[Thanos]

Must be a peculiar generational thing specific to countries like Canada. Watch the authorities step all over their own dicks in an endless cycle of CYA in order to defend the mishandling of a vile rapist/murderer that any sane country would have taken out and shot in the back of the head within a minute of the guilty verdict being announced. As previously with Clifford Olson, cackling at everyone from his cell as he watched the masters of this system scurry & dance for his amusement, so now today with Paul Bernardo. And then watch the botch-meisters, who couldn't summon the balls to defend their own wives and kids if they were being raped to death right in front of them, accuse anyone upset at their incompetence of being some sort of sadists.

We're fully back to the liberalism of the 1970's, the original Pandora's box of degenerate thinking that unleashed nothing but one nightmare after another onto this entire society. And this time the wave of sheer stupidity won't be reversed by the ongoing eruption of crime and other assorted deviancies simply because the powers-that-be have successfully convinced a majority of the complacent cattle who comprise the bulk of the Canadian population that anyone who ever complains about the monsters now reigning supreme over literally everything & everyone else are actually the true deviants who need to have the full weight of the law thrown at them to make them shut up.

There's no good left in the world anymore. There's nothing decent left. It's all be destroyed, entirely at the hands of those who decided that being kind to the worst freaks imaginable was the only high ideal this society needed to strive for. And now look where we are as a result. It entirely makes sense to choose to be a vicious criminal because this society and the fucking clownshoes leading it are incapable of providing any reason anymore for anyone not to want to be a criminal.

[herbie]

WTF do they even have a Correction department for according to the complainers? Justin should personally rule on everything, then their idea that he does will be true.
No one has even thought to ask WHY. Is the guy too old and gimpy to escape? Is he under threat where he is? Does it save us $2000 a day in unnecessary costs?
No need to ask of those who think justice = pinish, punish, and punish more.

And PP's shooting off his mouth "he should be dead" blows away any claim he should have any say at all, and simply gives more proof he simply plays to the populist BS and has no qualifications whatsoever.

[DrCaleb]

herbie herbie:

No one has even thought to ask WHY. Is the guy too old and gimpy to escape? Is he under threat where he is? Does it save us $2000 a day in unnecessary costs?

Medium security is cheaper, and has more benefits. It's a reward for good behaviour. Which is why it's important. If those in max security see there is a way out, they behave too and make things cheaper and easier.

herbie herbie:

And PP's shooting off his mouth "he should be dead" blows away any claim he should have any say at all, and simply gives more proof he simply plays to the populist BS and has no qualifications whatsoever.

That's how he rolls. He knows better, but it riles up his demographic. Having the PM control prisons not only is totally authoritarian, but a waste of government resources.

[Thanos]

Bernardo, his c**t wife, and anyone else who does what they did should be dead. They should be executed immediately after a guilty verdict is reached and their bodies thrown into a swamp. They deserve nothing but death for the things they do as they've voluntarily forfeited any right to live with their actions.

[DrCaleb]

But then they learn nothing, and death has been shown to be no deterrent to crimes of passion.

I agree that power couple should be fertilizing a golf course somewhere, but the big picture means the possibility of 25 years in prison, minimum, is the stronger deterrent to crime in this country.

I'd rather deterrence over vengeance.

[Scape]

There is no 'I win' button when it comes to institutions the only constant is concistancy and even then best practice need to be peer reviewed on an ongoing basis.

Cliff notes version: The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Death penalty is mob rule and that only happens when you listen to fools.

[Thanos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But then they learn nothing, and death has been shown to be no deterrent to crimes of passion.

I agree that power couple should be fertilizing a golf course somewhere, but the big picture means the possibility of 25 years in prison, minimum, is the stronger deterrent to crime in this country.

I'd rather deterrence over vengeance.

Deterrence is irrelevant. And a red herring in general too. If prison, a death sentence, exile, or any other punishment was a deterrent to killing another then there wouldn't have been a single other murder committed by anyone since Cain killed Abel.

Some people, like Bernardo, have done things so awful that they deserve to die. Their lives should end as a consequence of what they've done. just because the world would be far cleaner and safer if they were removed from it altogether. That is all there is to it.

[JaredMilne]

Thanos Thanos:

Deterrence is irrelevant. And a red herring in general too. If prison, a death sentence, exile, or any other punishment was a deterrent to killing another then there wouldn't have been a single other murder committed by anyone since Cain killed Abel.

Some people, like Bernardo, have done things so awful that they deserve to die. Their lives should end as a consequence of what they've done. just because the world would be far cleaner and safer if they were removed from it altogether. That is all there is to it.

I have zero sympathy for rapists or murderers. I think Stephen Harper did some of his best work as Prime Minister in toughening up the Criminal Code eliminating crap like the "faint hope" clause and I think it's a damn shame the Supreme Court's overturned many of his reforms.

That said, I can't support the death penalty because of six words:

David Milgaard and Donald Marshall Jr.

Both those guys were falsely imprisoned and lost years of their lives to the system's fuck-ups. The injustices they suffered were eventually corrected, and they received a compensation they more than deserved. What should society have done if it executed Milgaard or Marshall, and it later came out that they were innocent? Just say "oops, our bad?"


We can give a person back their freedom when we take it away, but we can't give them back their life.

Regarding Bernado's prison status, the Minister shouldn't be expected to personally intervene in every criminal case, particularly not when like all Cabinet Ministers he's got a zillion other things on his plate. This is just bullshit on its own, but since perception is everything in politics and the Liberals don't need any more headaches right now, Trudeau might throw Mendicino under the bus to save himself.

[Scape]

https://youtu.be/ng_Lyk1F-Bg?t=1009

[Thanos]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Thanos Thanos:

Deterrence is irrelevant. And a red herring in general too. If prison, a death sentence, exile, or any other punishment was a deterrent to killing another then there wouldn't have been a single other murder committed by anyone since Cain killed Abel.

Some people, like Bernardo, have done things so awful that they deserve to die. Their lives should end as a consequence of what they've done. just because the world would be far cleaner and safer if they were removed from it altogether. That is all there is to it.

I have zero sympathy for rapists or murderers. I think Stephen Harper did some of his best work as Prime Minister in toughening up the Criminal Code eliminating crap like the "faint hope" clause and I think it's a damn shame the Supreme Court's overturned many of his reforms.

That said, I can't support the death penalty because of six words:

David Milgaard and Donald Marshall Jr.

Both those guys were falsely imprisoned and lost years of their lives to the system's fuck-ups. The injustices they suffered were eventually corrected, and they received a compensation they more than deserved. What should society have done if it executed Milgaard or Marshall, and it later came out that they were innocent? Just say "oops, our bad?"

We can give a person back their freedom when we take it away, but we can't give them back their life.

Regarding Bernado's prison status, the Minister shouldn't be expected to personally intervene in every criminal case, particularly not when like all Cabinet Ministers he's got a zillion other things on his plate. This is just bullshit on its own, but since perception is everything in politics and the Liberals don't need any more headaches right now, Trudeau might throw Mendicino under the bus to save himself.

I don't think that Donald Marshall would have been eligible for execution if capital punishment were still in effect. He was inebriated at the time the crime he was falsely accused of happened and being in a drunken or stoned state at the time of murder has always been enough, even during our own "wild west" era to ensure that the death penalty would not be applied. Milgaard might have been eligible for the death penalty, given the ferocity of the rape & murder Larry Fisher had inflicted on Gail Miller. Once again though, given the nature of the times in the early 1970's, it would have been highly unlikely to have been imposed.

Here's a list of executions conducted in Canada from the colonial 19th century through to the abolishment of capital punishment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... _by_Canada

Even in the "unenlightened" past, which IMO is a completely incorrect & politically self-serving view of our history and a warped & contemptuous perspective that really only began when Pierre Trudeau came along to "save" us from our own way of life, executions were very few and far between. From the 1920s to the 1960's it seems to have been reserved for those who were truly heinous, like serial murderers/mass killers/family annihilators. There's no evidence at all it was ever used arbitrarily, or recklessly, or for the political gain of politicians/judges/prosecutors, in the manner in which the US, Britain, France, or most of the other Western nations too often used it. There's nothing like a Derek Bentley disgrace in our history, for example, the way there is in Britain.

Canada really did use the death penalty only for the worst of the worst, in the first half of the 20th century anyway. And the likes of Bernardo or Clifford Olsen definitely fall into that category. So, once again, nothing of value at all would be lost by killing these creatures after the guilty verdict gets reached.

PS: the widespread failure of the Harper reforms to toughen up the system shows that the courts are too far gone in the wrong direction; even if Poilievre ever became a majority PM all his efforts would fail all over again, simply because the courts aren't going to allow it; aside from a constitutional convention that specifically addresses crime and the consequence that should result from engaging in it I don't see this ever changing - I'm actually to point where I firmly believe that the courts one day will abolish arrest & imprisonment altogether in what could be the most insane & truly warped interpretation of individual civil liberties under the Charter of Rights as it's currently written

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

PS: the widespread failure of the Harper reforms to toughen up the system shows that the courts are too far gone in the wrong direction;

The courts haven't changed. They are still about Constitutionality. Harper was told the bills he was passing weren't Constitutional by Government lawyers before he passed them, but he passed them anyhow.

Looks good to the base, but doesn't make anyone safer.