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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:24 pm
 


Title: Pentagon May See Higher F-35 Costs, Delays Up to Three Years
Category: Military
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2010-11-01 16:32:01
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:24 pm
 


This sounds familiar.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:12 pm
 


Our military needs these things like Canada needs another 5 years of harper. These machines could not stand up to current technology fighters that the Russians or Chinese have for 2 seconds. What a waste that it is even being considered, it needs to be a confidence vote and we need done with the current bunch of losers trying to trash more billions that we do not have. Check out :45 into this one, cmon steve, show us what you got..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeXvT9GEKSA


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:29 pm
 


:roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:33 pm
 


$1:
These machines could not stand up to current technology fighters that the Russians or Chinese have for 2 seconds.


You know, you could launch a civil suit against the hospital you were born in.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:59 pm
 


djakeydd djakeydd:
Our military needs these things like Canada needs another 5 years of harper. These machines could not stand up to current technology fighters that the Russians or Chinese have for 2 seconds. What a waste that it is even being considered, it needs to be a confidence vote and we need done with the current bunch of losers trying to trash more billions that we do not have. Check out :45 into this one, cmon steve, show us what you got...


ROTFL ROTFL ROTFL

Rich!

-J.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:55 am
 


Yeah, now we can spend more than $16 billion on them!

I mean, if the Cyclones and Chinooks are costing far more than projected, why shouldn't our new fighters cost more too? :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:14 am
 


To our military buffs here...

Would it not actually make sense if Canada used domestic built, and engineered military equipment. Not because it's cheaper (it could be, but not guaranteed), but due to security purposes.

The USA routinely strips down military equipment when sold overseas...the Japanese as a result have decided to manufacture their own stealth fighters instead of relying on the never arriving F-22. (It will be built by Mitsubishi).

Canada's level of expertise with this level of tech excellent, we certainly have the technology. IMO it's time we began to heavily subsidize a domestic military industry of some kind instead of relying on the US firms. If the Swiss, Swedes and South Africans can manufacture stealth destroyers and jet fighters, so can we.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:24 am
 


CommanderSock CommanderSock:
To our military buffs here...

Would it not actually make sense if Canada used domestic built, and engineered military equipment. Not because it's cheaper (it could be, but not guaranteed), but due to security purposes.

The USA routinely strips down military equipment when sold overseas...the Japanese as a result have decided to manufacture their own stealth fighters instead of relying on the never arriving F-22. (It will be built by Mitsubishi).

Canada's level of expertise with this level of tech excellent, we certainly have the technology. IMO it's time we began to heavily subsidize a domestic military industry of some kind instead of relying on the US firms. If the Swiss, Swedes and South Africans can manufacture stealth destroyers and jet fighters, so can we.


It's been bandied about on CKA for years, but as our experience with the Avro Arrow taught us, developing a front line indigenous fighter plane is monumentally expensive.

We could develop our own fighter plane if we were willing to spend somewhere in the area of $25 billion or so (depending on how many fighters we ultimately built), but the desire and commitment from the DND and our government has never materialized. In these days of such political partisanship, whichever party that decided to fund such development would need to have a mandate for at least a decade (if not more), as the opposing party would almost surely cancel the project once it was elected - either out of spite or simply labelling it a 'Cadillac' project that Canada can't afford.

We will likely build our own destroyers and supply ships, but they cost far less to develop than state-of-the-art fighter planes do.

Finally, the fighters that many other small nations develop (like Sweden, Taiwan, South Africa, etc) are usually not up to par with front line planes developed by US or even USSR. And in many of those situations, the nation developing the fighter has its own reasons for doing so - like an arms embargo (South Africa) or outright refusal from other nations to sell them arms (Taiwan).

Japan develops its own planes, but pays up to 50% more than they would if they just bought the from the US/Europe. The big reason they are willing to pay extra is because they prefer to see 100% of the industrial offsets (and jobs and technology) developed in Japan, supporting Japanese industry, and developing new technologies they might otherwise not. The Japanese government plays a far larger role in the economy than the Canadian government does.

Still, I think it would have been great if a part of the stimulus package (Gods know how many billions) had gone to buying some new LAVs (built in London & Edmonton BTW), new Buffalo SAR planes (built in Victoria and Calgary), and new JSS (could be built in a couple shipyards in eastern Canada), and getting hulls laid for new DDHs (eastern Canada again), instead of seeing $75 billion go to the big 5 banks and another $4 billion or so to GM & Chrysler. Even $5 or $10 billion of the stimulus would have gone a long way.

IMHO, the $56 billion deficit would be easier to swallow if DND had gotten a cut of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:28 am
 


$1:
Finally, the fighters that many other small nations develop (like Sweden, Taiwan, South Africa, etc) are usually not up to par

Someone needs to inform the Taiwanese, that their jets aren't meant to be submersible, both the indigenous fighter and the American F-16s tend to be water seeking. Or maybe like any other mechanical device, beyond a bicycle, they aren't meant to be handled by the Chinese.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:16 am
 


While you guys are squabbling over the F22's and 35's the chinese have been hard at work developing their own weapons to rain death and destruction

And here is the latest in Chinese weapon tech aimed to bring the imperial western forces crumbling to their knees

Ladies and Gents I present to you the Chinese military shovel WJQ-308 no less !



On a side note not a bad thing to bring along on camping trips ! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:52 am
 


djakeydd djakeydd:
These machines could not stand up to current technology fighters that the Russians or Chinese have for 2 seconds.


I'm sorry, but were you paying attention in the last two Gulf Wars when Soviet and Chinese hardware were swept aside as near impotent?

And, pray tell, what do you know of NATO air operations as opposed to Russian and Chinese air operations?

Even if the other side had better fighters they'd still be screwed going up against NATO forces and for solid reasons I'd fathom you're completely oblivious to. :idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:55 am
 


DD & Shep - don't worry about the Chinese. The USA is (no foolin'!) developing the FU2 missile to deal with them.

That's so when China shoots at us we can say "FU2!!!" :lol:

http://www.dod.gov/pubs/foi/contracts/H ... C-0196.pdf


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:09 am
 


I think the Ozzies disagree with you.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-150210-1.html


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:26 am
 


desertdude desertdude:
I think the Ozzies disagree with you.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-150210-1.html


I think it was the now-absent "Canadian Jeff" who was the principle shill for the PAK-FA and he quantified his authority on the F-22 CAS by stating that he has a Bachelor's Degree in Sociology.

Since you're taking up for him do we need to rerun the same arguments that showed the PAK-FA for what it truly is? And that's just a look-alike F-22.

Just because it looks spiffy does not make it the equal of the F-22 and just because the Russians are puking out a bunch of statistics on an unproven aircraft means that they're tryng to sell it. If you're going to shill and huckster for the Russians I do hope you're getting paid.

Otherwise, you're utterly wasting your time with an argument that has already been soundly defeated.


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