[Newsbot]

Title: Ontario's roads �less safe� since winter maintenance privatized: auditor
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: BeaverFever
Date: 2015-04-29 10:09:22
Canadian

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Five years ago, the most travelled highways were cleared in an average 2.1 hours after a storm, a figure that increased to 4.7 hours in the winter of 2013-14.

In six of 20 areas of the province examined, the standard of clearing highways within eight hours, 90 per cent of the time, was not met, said Lysyk, noting that this is a "generous standard" compared with other provinces.

Just goes to show that privatization isn't a panacea after all.

[Tyler_1]

In Alberta we get a lecture when we plow our way to the highway.
We do a better job and it annoys them that we don't wait.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Just goes to show that privatization isn't a panacea after all.

Wow! How low does your partisanship go?

What exactly does this government have to do to actually get you to acknowledge they fucked up?

Our government went with a contractor based on price without considering if they had the proper equipment to do the job.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Just goes to show that privatization isn't a panacea after all.

Wow! How low does your partisanship go?

What exactly does this government have to do to actually get you to acknowledge they fucked up?

Our government went with a contractor based on price without considering if they had the proper equipment to do the job.

Just so we're clear what you're alleging here....posting an article critical of privatization scheme that occurred under the Liberals demonstrates my Liberal partisanship? Did I get that right?

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Just so we're clear what you're alleging here....posting an article critical of privatization scheme that occurred under the Liberals demonstrates my Liberal partisanship? Did I get that right?

And then looked to deflect the blame to the privatization rather than the government? Yes, we're clear.

Amazingly enough, it worked quite well until the Liberals changed the rules in 2009.

[BeaverFever]

Of course the government is to blame. But what I'm saying to those who worship at the altar of privatization (including Liberals looking to sell off stakes of Ontario Hydro) is that privatization doesn't inherently mean things will be better and can just as easily mean they will be worse.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Of course the government is to blame. But what I'm saying to those who worship at the altar of privatization (including Liberals looking to sell off stakes of Ontario Hydro) is that privatization doesn't inherently mean things will be better and can just as easily mean they will be worse.

It's about what I would expect.

Gloss over the real topic of the story and focus on privatization.

[herbie]

Do like the City of Prince George.
Don't clear the roads at all. Make the contractors that to the Highways look outstanding.
Where I live three branches of the same contractor do the highway. You can tell the difference between the three, especially in the 2nd half of the month when thier budgets get short. Then you get to the city and lock your hubs to get to and through the Walmart parking lot. I've seen sidestreets in better neighbourhoods that never saw a plow at all. If one comes, the kids stand slack jawed going "Whazzat thing?"
If it snows on a Saturday or Sunday, you just don't bother to go to Prince George.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Of course the government is to blame. But what I'm saying to those who worship at the altar of privatization (including Liberals looking to sell off stakes of Ontario Hydro) is that privatization doesn't inherently mean things will be better and can just as easily mean they will be worse.

It's about what I would expect.

Gloss over the real topic of the story and focus on privatization.

Because more privatization is coming and so privatization is the REAL story. And as I said, this doesn't mean the Liberals don't have any blame.

I know you would love it if the article was 2,000 words of Wynne-bashing and never mentioned that your sacred privatization was involved. But just because you want life to be nothing but a 24/7 Conservative attack ad, doesn't mean the world is obligated to indulge you.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Because more privatization is coming and so privatization is the REAL story. And as I said, this doesn't mean the Liberals don't have any blame.

I know you would love it if the article was 2,000 words of Wynne-bashing and never mentioned that your sacred privatization was involved. But just because you want life to be nothing but a 24/7 Conservative attack ad, doesn't mean the world is obligated to indulge you.

Your partisanship is showing.

Where have I ever said that I support nothing but privatization or like nothing more than to privatize everything?I never have and you're just making it up as you go.

I don't support the privatization of Hydro One. It's a terrible choice and will turn out to be far worse than the sale of the 407 you love to discuss.

The real story here is the Liberals changing an existing privatization arrangement that worked quite well and modified it to save money while putting us at risk. Privatization works, and the current Liberal government take all the blame in this fuck-up.

This isn't coming from me, this is coming from our AG....but for you, it's easier to attack the messenger.

How can you still support this party?

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Privatization works

The whole point of the OP is to challenge what you just said here....you say this as if it as true as saying "water is wet".

You can try to claim that if only the Cons had been handling the privatization it would have gone better but you wouldn't have a shred of credibility. The point of this all is that Privatization - by Libs, Cons, whomever, isn't always the answer.

I work for a private company and we hire other private companies to do things for us (or do them for others on our behalf) and they are just as likely to be successful or unsuccessful. The salespeople tell you they can deliver anything you want for the proposed cost and then when you're long past the point of no return there's "oh, we just checked with our (IT/Legal/Operations) department and unfortunately we can't do that/will have to charge extra for that." And my company doesn't even go with the 'lowest bidders' we stick to the big corporate names.

Change of any kind inevitably brings problems due to some minute detail that couldn't have possibly have been considered from the outset. And when the change also involves contracting out there's a heavy sales pitch and the overpromise/under-deliver appears.

What I'm saying is that this shouldn't have been privatized by anyone because privatization is tricky and often fails to deliver as promised...to ANY party. What you seem to be saying is just the tired old "if the Conservatives did it, it would have been better". Which is is not credible.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

What I'm saying is that this shouldn't have been privatized by anyone because privatization is tricky and often fails to deliver as promised...to ANY party. What you seem to be saying is just the tired old "if the Conservatives did it, it would have been better". Which is is not credible.

Not saying that at all. That's your partisanship talking.

It should have been privatized. The private sector can do the same job better and cheaper than we could as a Province. It's in the report and it's been proven and it worked very well for 13 years.

The reason this failed was because we took an agreement and process that worked and saved us money and changed it further to save a couple million bucks a year while compromising public safety.

What I'm saying is, the Ontario government fucked up. Again.

[BeaverFever]

Sure they fucked up. But they fucked up by removing government oversight of the private sectors. As soon as the cat was away, the mice who supposedly can do it "better an cheaper" went to play and took us all for a ride.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Sure they fucked up. But they fucked up by removing government oversight of the private sectors. As soon as the cat was away, the mice who supposedly can do it "better an cheaper" went to play and took us all for a ride.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Did you read anything about the report?

They didn't remove oversight, they changed the types of contracts they gave out to 'performance based (which requires oversight) but looked mainly/only at price, not whether or not the company actually had the equipment to serve the public.

When the company didn't have the equipment, we had to pay for it and when they failed to meet performance standards and were fined millions, we 'forgave' the millions in fines.

Our government switched to a contract system to save money that provided a service that got 100% worse and ignored government staff and engineers when they said that this plan wouldn't work.