[Newsbot]

Title: Newcomers Employment Opportunities Act introduced in ON. Canada
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: sehgalviveka
Date: 2010-06-04 12:40:34
Canadian

[KorbenDeck]

WTF we shouldn't have to train immigrants to speak English or French in the first place. It should be required they speak one of them before their app can even begin to be processed

[Brenda]

It is for the applicant, but not for the spouse.

[Bruce_the_vii]

Toronto is awash in immigrants. I call myself a Toronto based "jobs activist" and all the local immigrants I speak to are concerned with the problems in the labour markets. Tim has appointed himself Immigration Critic but hasn't noticed the snow job the official statistics are. Tim is, like, middle managment material, not an executive. In the case of the legislation he's polished up the file real good without actually thinking about what is going on with the workers.

[desertdude]

I really don't know what the situation is since I'm not there, but AFAIK the prinicpal applicant for immigation has to be fluent in English or French, and even have to take tests to prove it. Unless you belong to a native english speaking country. So what seems to be the problem ?

[Brenda]

Did you take the test? It's far from fluent!

And, that is only for skilled workers. I thought that entrepeneurs do not have to take the test, spouses do not have to, family class doesn't have to, and people on a work permit don't have to, although those are technically not immigrants...

[desertdude]

No I haven't actually but did look at some sample tests, although I found them quite easy but I guess someone who is not that fluent might have some trouble with them.

But I do agree one should speak English well if he was to look for work. I actually didn't think it was so much of a problem. But also being and becoming more and more multicultral by the day. Other languages are bound to pop in.

Like Dubai, UAE for example. Official language is Arabic, but if you only speak Arabic then you will have a tough time here. Same with if you only speak English. You need atleast two or three languages if not more here. Its pretty underheard of here other than the few local Arabs and westerners to be monolingual

Just a thought. I'm not saying its a must but maybe Canadians should start to become more biligual aswell and accept the multicultralism more. I know they don't have to and some will argue " Why should we" and you are correct in that but I do know that majority of the " orginal " population do not speak both of the official languages even. So technically French is also an official language but Majority of the population doesn't speak it

Now what that other language will be is up in the air. But yes everyone should be at a decent level of English as that is not happening anytime soon.

Basically what I'm saying is never hurts to learn another language or take intrest in other cultures. Makes the world more accessible

[Bruce_the_vii]

Rather a lot of the immigrants that have been here in Toronto for 40 years still speak without proper grammar. Occationally you meet one that has been here 40 years and doesn't actually know how to converse properly in English. Even though the Greater Area is 43% immigrant language problems are minimal though.

[Benn]

Brenda Brenda:

:lol: Did you take the test? It's far from fluent!

Brenda is right and each CIC offices overseas might accept different testing schools etc. From my experience during my short time with CIC you would not have to be what I'd call "fluent" to get in.

I do support this bills third point about making certification access more open and transparent. There is a lot of built in implicit prejudices in these things which keeps many great engineers (for one example) driving cabs.

There is nothing more absurd then adding up an applicants points which include his or her education and job experience while knowing that it will get them in but they will likely never get accepted into their field once here.

[BeaverFever]

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

WTF we shouldn't have to train immigrants to speak English or French in the first place. It should be required they speak one of them before their app can even begin to be processed

First, this is an incentive for private sector employers to spend the money, not "we" the taxpayer. You might argue that since the result of this propsal would be reduced government tax revenue, "we" would actually be paying some of these costs by having to reduce program spending but I know you conservatives hate it when taxes and spending are lowered, right?

Second, it seems like most of this language training would be at the advanced level, probably profession-specific and the immigrant students would probably already have moderate to excellent ability in "plain languge" communication. Examples would be sciences and health care, which are fields that require knowledge of specific and precise terminology and are also fields where a lot of skilled immigrants have professional backgrounds.

More generally, alot of immigrants may have english/french skills that are more than adequate for day-to-day life but inadequate for the position that their professional skills otherwise deserve. For example, think of someone who may have a Master's degree in engineering but their second-language vocabulary or writing skills are at the high school level and therefore they're simply deemed to be not 'polished' or articulate enough to advance to a senior level, where they would otherwise belong.

[KorbenDeck]

desertdude desertdude:

No I haven't actually but did look at some sample tests, although I found them quite easy but I guess someone who is not that fluent might have some trouble with them.

But I do agree one should speak English well if he was to look for work. I actually didn't think it was so much of a problem. But also being and becoming more and more multicultral by the day. Other languages are bound to pop in.

Like Dubai, UAE for example. Official language is Arabic, but if you only speak Arabic then you will have a tough time here. Same with if you only speak English. You need atleast two or three languages if not more here. Its pretty underheard of here other than the few local Arabs and westerners to be monolingual

Just a thought. I'm not saying its a must but maybe Canadians should start to become more biligual aswell and accept the multicultralism more. I know they don't have to and some will argue " Why should we" and you are correct in that but I do know that majority of the " orginal " population do not speak both of the official languages even. So technically French is also an official language but Majority of the population doesn't speak it

Now what that other language will be is up in the air. But yes everyone should be at a decent level of English as that is not happening anytime soon.

Basically what I'm saying is never hurts to learn another language or take intrest in other cultures. Makes the world more accessible

Accept multiculturalism? Canada STARTED multiculturalism, its part of our Constitution. Two official languages is too many, the reason UAE people need to learn English or another language is because Dubai is banking its future on attracting wealthy foreigners.

I will also point out that someone from the UAE should never tell Canada to become more multicultural when it is illegal in the UAE to spread the ideas of any religion apart from Islam through any form of media as it is a form of proselytizing.

But the reason to have only one official language is simply, employers and governments should not be required to have 5 different translators on hand at all times just so people can communicate.