[Newsbot]

Title: New navy chopper can't pass endurance test
Category: Military
Posted By: WDHIII
Date: 2009-08-19 08:17:50
Canadian

[Praxius]

Nice looking chopper, but it's pretty bad that the sea kings meet the requirements and the new one doesn't.

Or do the Sea Kings?

[PENATRATOR]

Shitty, underpowered like the Griffin?

[BeaverFever]

I beleive they would -at least for endurance- if they were still reliable, too maintenance-heavy though.

I'm sick of these god-damn military contracts always running over-time, over-budget and under-performing. We were supposed to have these delivered a year ago. Contractors always lie their asses of on the bids, proising the moon and once they win they deliver something non-compliant at double the estimated cost and timeframe. I'm thinking countries like Canada need to stick to proven hardware whenever possible when it comes to big-ticket items cuz these companies are out to screw us.

And yes, I know this is all Chretien's fault for cancelling Mulroney's EH-101 program and then manipulating the subsequent contract so that somebody else would win. Chretien was no friend to the military, thats for sure.

[leewgrant]

$1:

However, a revised contract announced last year allowed for the delivery of the helicopters to begin in November 2010, two years behind schedule. It also doesn't require the choppers to meet the 170-minute flying time until after the 19th helicopter has been delivered in 2012.

Good god!

[ASLplease]

thats the problem with Martin gouginh 20 billion from the defense budget....everytime there is an over time, over budget, under perform type of issue, it is amplified by the fact that we are 20 billion behind.

[DerbyX]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Shitty, underpowered like the Griffin?

According to Inverted, an actual Griffon pilot, its not a shitty underpowered helicopter.

[Praxius]

Maybe the military should get a little mafia on their arses, point their guns to their heads and force them to meet the agreed contract requirements.

Everybody get's one chance.... screw them over again and you'll be sleeping with the fishies.... see?

And don't hope for any helicopter rescue.... cuz you didn't make them able to reach you, ya jerks!

Suffer.

[PENATRATOR]

DerbyX DerbyX:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Shitty, underpowered like the Griffin?

According to Inverted, an actual Griffon pilot, its not a shitty underpowered helicopter.

Well I am sure Inverted can speak for himself so why are you here?

mod edit

[BeaverFever]

I think it depends on your perspective. From an army point of view, the Griffon is definitely deficient, for example it can not practically sling even light artillery underneath while a Blackhawk can reportedly carry a light howitzer and its crew. Also when its kitted out with add-on armour and MGs and other in-theatre kit it can only carry something in the neighbourhood of 90 minutes of fuel and 5 troops.

It is supposedly very fast though and fun to fly when its not loaded down so AF types might like it for punching holes in the sky and aerial missions with light loads.

[ridenrain]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

DerbyX DerbyX:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Shitty, underpowered like the Griffin?

According to Inverted, an actual Griffon pilot, its not a shitty underpowered helicopter.

Well I am sure Inverted can speak for himself and does not require you speaking out of turn, I mean, I saw no political or muslim comments in this thread so why are you here?

Snap!

I think it's time we took the politics out of military purchasing.
Not that the forces won't make mistakes but at least their the ones who then have to suffer with it.

[bootlegga]

I don't necessarily think the Cyclone is under-powered, but rather it sounds like the CF keeps adding systems onto the frame, pushing the weight (much like they did with the Chinooks we ordered a few weeka back) higher than the original contract specified.

We had similar problems with the CF-18 when we ordered it back in the 80s (we were the first country to order them for regular use). I'm pretty sure every weapons platform has some teething problems when they first become operational.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

And yes, I know this is all Chretien's fault for cancelling Mulroney's EH-101 program and then manipulating the subsequent contract so that somebody else would win. Chretien was no friend to the military, thats for sure.

And the CF was no friend of his.

They made him look like a fool several times, especially by insisting that the EH-101 was the ONLY helo the could use 5 years after they cancelled the first contract, as well as incidents like the backwards helmet. I'm not excusing his childish behaviour in any way shape or form, but neither side was willing to take the high road and both parties seemed to go out of their way to piss each other off. Apparently, neither party ever learned that two wrongs don't make a right.

[Scape]

A demo of the new chopper.... j/k

Kinda late to get the contract annulled at this point and there is a huge demand for replacements. Such demands usually call for excess costs and lives. However, kinks always need to be ironed out and Sikorsky does have a history of good choppers. I think this is a lot of worry over nothing considering. Being over budget was more a fact that it wasn't till 2003 that this got nailed down anyway.

Background Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone

$1:

The H-92 has much in common mechanically with an earlier Sikorsky design, the SeaHawk. By basing the H-92 on this smaller helicopter, Sikorsky was able to keep development costs down but weight-gain could only be countered by adopting a new, more powerful version of the CT-7 engine – to minimize risk, designers prefer to avoid putting untried engine variants into new airframe types. Unfortunately, this means that commonality of engine parts between the new CH-148s and in-service SAR CH-149 Cormorants [3] will be minimal. NDHQ has obviously decided that the H-92 has other desirable features. [4]

That really sucks for the transitional period.

[BeaverFever]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I don't necessarily think the Cyclone is under-powered, but rather it sounds like the CF keeps adding systems onto the frame, pushing the weight (much like they did with the Chinooks we ordered a few weeka back) higher than the original contract specified.

We had similar problems with the CF-18 when we ordered it back in the 80s (we were the first country to order them for regular use). I'm pretty sure every weapons platform has some teething problems when they first become operational.


...And the CF was no friend of his.

They made him look like a fool several times, especially by insisting that the EH-101 was the ONLY helo the could use 5 years after they cancelled the first contract, as well as incidents like the backwards helmet. I'm not excusing his childish behaviour in any way shape or form, but neither side was willing to take the high road and both parties seemed to go out of their way to piss each other off. Apparently, neither party ever learned that two wrongs don't make a right.

Meh, I dont know. The MHP has been rigged and re-rigged for so many years, who knows what ideal requirements are. I DO know however that at the time of the EH-101 saga, there really was no alternative 'big' chopper. The other contenders were Seahawks and NH90 types which are way too small. In additionton to range and speed, the CF wanted something that could carry a full SAR kit on board at all times regardless of the mission it was on so that it could always respond to a SAR call at any time. The smaller choppers would have meant returning to the ship to reconfigure before responding. To ensure the EH-101 didnt win, the contract was altered to allow this as long as the on-ship recongifure took less than 1 hour. If we had them now, there would be commonality with the existing Cormorant fleet plus a faster aircraft with longer range.

[Praxius]

Scape... *tisk* Dude, that chopper it sooooo 1984.