[Newsbot]

Title: Military Personnel Skeptical of Report on Sexual Misconduct in the Canadian Forces
Category: Military
Posted By: Freakinoldguy
Date: 2016-05-20 13:57:07
Canadian

[Freakinoldguy]

Another witch hunt against people who can't defend themselves by an overzealous group of PC warriors. It isn't the males in the military who are the disgruntled ones, unfortunately for people like Deschamps and Whitecross it's the women and it's pretty apparent why.

$1:

�There appears to be a growing sentiment of disgruntlement among our members, especially female, with the contents of this report,� Lawson wrote on May 7, 2015. He included an email from another unidentified person that included several allegations about how Deschamps had conducted her study.

In a separate email, Whitecross reported on the mood at a town hall meeting with military personnel at the military college in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que. �There is obviously some who don�t believe, and those who needed to vent.�

At one point, Lawson wrote that Deschamps had told him she had intentionally �leaned away from the narratives of women who have had excellent experiences in the CAF and strongly toward volunteers who have brought forward lurid and, in nearly all cases, uninvestigated allegations.�

So like I said, this whole investigation is nothing more than PC bullshit so our Military could be seen as doing something whether it was necessary or not. And the logic quite obviously was that since the American military had issues every military "must" have issues and if we can't find any we'll just create them.

These supposed unbiased findings cost one Senior Officer his career and yet despite the proof that the investigation was flawed we still have a female LGen who apparently thinks that it's absolutely necessary to change a whole culture because some femnazi SJW created a firestorm where none existed.

Talk about utter bullshit. Any and all problems of this nature were taken seriously in the Military and were dealt with poste haste so to claim otherwise proves that Political Correctness trumps the truth.

[BartSimpson]

In the US the reporting of male-on-male and female-on-female sexual assault is being almost ignored.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... study.html

It always comes down to politics.

[andyt]

FOG - do you believe the allegations coming out of the mounties? Also an organization set up along military lines with a preponderance of men. It just seems to come with the territory.

$1:

Military sex assault and misconduct investigations increase in 2015

But a military legal expert, retired colonel Michel Drapeau, said there are many disincentives that prevent victims coming forward, not the least of which are the possible career implications, and the fact that the alleged attacker would often be tried by court martial within the confines of the same unit as the alleged victim. He believes, among other things, the crisis response centre should be completely independent of the military. Drapeau said his experience dealing with victims of sexual assault is that they "do not trust their chain of command, do not trust the military police and hence do not come forward."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/militar ... -1.3592501

[2Cdo]

And once again andy is sitting at his computer jerking away at another opportunity to cast a dark cloud over military members.

[andyt]

And you said you were going to put me on ignore. Can't help yourself, huh? It's got to suck when you have to believe in a vast pc cornspiracy to prevent cognitive dissoance.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

And you said you were going to put me on ignore. Can't help yourself, huh? It's got to suck when you have to believe in a vast pc cornspiracy to prevent cognitive dissoance.

It's got to suck for you being an old, washed up troll who can't even admit to his own prejudices.

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Another witch hunt against people who can't defend themselves by an overzealous group of PC warriors. It isn't the males in the military who are the disgruntled ones, unfortunately for people like Deschamps and Whitecross it's the women and it's pretty apparent why.

$1:

�There appears to be a growing sentiment of disgruntlement among our members, especially female, with the contents of this report,� Lawson wrote on May 7, 2015. He included an email from another unidentified person that included several allegations about how Deschamps had conducted her study.

In a separate email, Whitecross reported on the mood at a town hall meeting with military personnel at the military college in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que. �There is obviously some who don�t believe, and those who needed to vent.�

At one point, Lawson wrote that Deschamps had told him she had intentionally �leaned away from the narratives of women who have had excellent experiences in the CAF and strongly toward volunteers who have brought forward lurid and, in nearly all cases, uninvestigated allegations.�

So like I said, this whole investigation is nothing more than PC bullshit so our Military could be seen as doing something whether it was necessary or not. And the logic quite obviously was that since the American military had issues every military "must" have issues and if we can't find any we'll just create them.

These supposed unbiased findings cost one Senior Officer his career and yet despite the proof that the investigation was flawed we still have a female LGen who apparently thinks that it's absolutely necessary to change a whole culture because some femnazi SJW created a firestorm where none existed.

Talk about utter bullshit. Any and all problems of this nature were taken seriously in the Military and were dealt with poste haste so to claim otherwise proves that Political Correctness trumps the truth.

Your narrative doesn't seem to align with the story. Nowhere does it say "witch hunt" or that there wasn't a sexual assault problem. It actually says the contrary in several places.

$1:

“The fact of the matter remains: we have a problem,” Whitecross said Wednesday. “We have to address it. I don’t care how big the problem is. I just want to make a change. That’s the bottom line.

...Lawson and Whitecross agreed the military had significant work to do in rooting out inappropriate behaviour...

...Whitecross, meanwhile, told Lawson she believed the scope of inappropriate behaviour in the ranks was “likely between the report and what we may have thought last spring,” when military commanders were playing down the seriousness of the issue.

She indicated that she was being asked at town hall meetings with service personnel on military bases across the country why senior commanders “aren’t disputing the report publicly.” However, she added that the Canadian Armed Forces was not “where we need to be” in terms of tackling sexual misconduct.

Speaking Wednesday to the Citizen, Whitecross said she was “completely onside” with Deschamps’ report. She said as many as three people would come up to her after each town hall meeting with disturbing reports. “And I’ve got to tell you, they hit me right to the core of my being both personally and professionally.

Indeed, the emails show people writing Whitecross with stories of having been harassed or abused even before Deschamps’ report was released. Since then, the military has charged several people and opened a sexual assault centre that had launched eight investigations as of February.

“I have been working on this file for over a year,” Whitecross said. “I am completely dedicated and focused to addressing this issue and to not minimizing it and not minimizing the impact on the men and women.

“It has hurt me to the core to listen to stories from the men and women in uniform. And I am committed to seeing this change.”

So what does the story say?

1) Members of [Group X] unhappy/skeptical of criticism of [Group x]...shocker!

2) The report about sexual assault mentions that dozens of women have been sexually assaulted, but ignores all of the women who weren't sexually assaulted. Go figure!

Hey, here's an idea, you guys have documented all these European women who have been sexually assaulted by Migrants, but you haven't documented all of the women who haven't been assaulted! Right? Right? Well....?


The point of this article is that CF leadership believes a sexual assault problem exists and needs to be addressed, but they believe it may not be as prevalent as the report suggests it is. Which is not really the sensational headline you're making it out to be.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

FOG - do you believe the allegations coming out of the mounties? Also an organization set up along military lines with a preponderance of men. It just seems to come with the territory.

$1:

Military sex assault and misconduct investigations increase in 2015

But a military legal expert, retired colonel Michel Drapeau, said there are many disincentives that prevent victims coming forward, not the least of which are the possible career implications, and the fact that the alleged attacker would often be tried by court martial within the confines of the same unit as the alleged victim. He believes, among other things, the crisis response centre should be completely independent of the military. Drapeau said his experience dealing with victims of sexual assault is that they "do not trust their chain of command, do not trust the military police and hence do not come forward."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/militar ... -1.3592501

If that is the case why is there a giant class action lawsuit against the RCMP and why is it the women in the forces who are the ones who are "skeptical" of these allegations. Also why did the femnazi Deschamps move away from the stories of women who had positive experiences in the military to focus on unproven allegations.

I spent more than a standeasy in the Navy and every ship, base or unit I served in, took any and all allegations of sexual harassment or any harassment of any type seriously and they were dealt with in a timely manner that followed QR&O's and the Code of Service Discipline.

Trust me. When you live on a piece of steel that's 365 feet long and 45 feet wide nothing and I mean nothing goes unnoticed or unheard of so, I'll say unequivocally that sexual assaults in the military are either an Army and Air Force phenomenon which I seriously doubt or they are being played up so our gov't can pretend that our military has the same problems the Americans had with incidents like the tailhook scandal.

BTW members of the JAG don't go to sea or out in the field and continue to live in their own little bubble so all they can do is take peoples word that something happened which, when you only seek out the negative stories means you'll get a very skewed picture of the military.

[andyt]

Well, they've asked Stats Can to look into it, so maybe that will shed some light. And the suggestion of making the crisis response center independent of the military would be a good first step.

[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Another witch hunt against people who can't defend themselves by an overzealous group of PC warriors. It isn't the males in the military who are the disgruntled ones, unfortunately for people like Deschamps and Whitecross it's the women and it's pretty apparent why.

$1:

�There appears to be a growing sentiment of disgruntlement among our members, especially female, with the contents of this report,� Lawson wrote on May 7, 2015. He included an email from another unidentified person that included several allegations about how Deschamps had conducted her study.

In a separate email, Whitecross reported on the mood at a town hall meeting with military personnel at the military college in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que. �There is obviously some who don�t believe, and those who needed to vent.�

At one point, Lawson wrote that Deschamps had told him she had intentionally �leaned away from the narratives of women who have had excellent experiences in the CAF and strongly toward volunteers who have brought forward lurid and, in nearly all cases, uninvestigated allegations.�

So like I said, this whole investigation is nothing more than PC bullshit so our Military could be seen as doing something whether it was necessary or not. And the logic quite obviously was that since the American military had issues every military "must" have issues and if we can't find any we'll just create them.

These supposed unbiased findings cost one Senior Officer his career and yet despite the proof that the investigation was flawed we still have a female LGen who apparently thinks that it's absolutely necessary to change a whole culture because some femnazi SJW created a firestorm where none existed.

Talk about utter bullshit. Any and all problems of this nature were taken seriously in the Military and were dealt with poste haste so to claim otherwise proves that Political Correctness trumps the truth.

Your narrative doesn't seem to align with the story. Nowhere does it say "witch hunt" or that there wasn't a sexual assault problem. It actually says the contrary in several places.

$1:

“The fact of the matter remains: we have a problem,” Whitecross said Wednesday. “We have to address it. I don’t care how big the problem is. I just want to make a change. That’s the bottom line.

...Lawson and Whitecross agreed the military had significant work to do in rooting out inappropriate behaviour...

...Whitecross, meanwhile, told Lawson she believed the scope of inappropriate behaviour in the ranks was “likely between the report and what we may have thought last spring,” when military commanders were playing down the seriousness of the issue.

She indicated that she was being asked at town hall meetings with service personnel on military bases across the country why senior commanders “aren’t disputing the report publicly.” However, she added that the Canadian Armed Forces was not “where we need to be” in terms of tackling sexual misconduct.

Speaking Wednesday to the Citizen, Whitecross said she was “completely onside” with Deschamps’ report. She said as many as three people would come up to her after each town hall meeting with disturbing reports. “And I’ve got to tell you, they hit me right to the core of my being both personally and professionally.

Indeed, the emails show people writing Whitecross with stories of having been harassed or abused even before Deschamps’ report was released. Since then, the military has charged several people and opened a sexual assault centre that had launched eight investigations as of February.

“I have been working on this file for over a year,” Whitecross said. “I am completely dedicated and focused to addressing this issue and to not minimizing it and not minimizing the impact on the men and women.

“It has hurt me to the core to listen to stories from the men and women in uniform. And I am committed to seeing this change.”

So what does the story say?

1) Members of [Group X] unhappy/skeptical of criticism of [Group x]...shocker!

2) The report about sexual assault mentions that dozens of women have been sexually assaulted, but ignores all of the women who weren't sexually assaulted. Go figure!

Hey, here's an idea, you guys have documented all these European women who have been sexually assaulted by Migrants, but you haven't documented all of the women who haven't been assaulted! Right? Right? Well....?


The point of this article is that CF leadership believes a sexual assault problem exists and needs to be addressed, but they believe it may not be as prevalent as the report suggests it is. Which is not really the sensational headline you're making it out to be.

You don't know much about the military do you? The CF Leadership is a political animal and will say and do what it's masters in the Gov't tell it. Any deviation from the party line is not accepted and generally results in "early retirement" or a posting to a position that is not commiserate to the rank.

So saying the CF Leadership thinks there is a sexual assault problem is like saying they think that the Gov't thinks it isn't giving the military enough money, resources and personnel to do the job. BTW the "former" CDS didn't think the problem was as wide spread as Ms. Deschamps did. Odd that, eh.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Well, they've asked Stats Can to look into it, so maybe that will shed some light. And the suggestion of making the crisis response center independent of the military would be a good first step.

Go to the JAG court martial page and you can see that assaults seem to be being dealt with at the highest level which would indicate that people who are being assaulted are coming forward which flies in the face of the first study.

[andyt]

You're doing a black and white thing again, where some assaults are reported and dealt with must mean that is all of them. We know that's not true in society in general, very unlikely it's true in the military. Seems to me the place to start would be an anonymous survey, to see it there are a lot of unreported cases of sexual misconduct. If not, great, leave it at that. If so, then figure out a way to make it easier for women (and men) to come forward.

[andyt]

$1:

Real number of sex assault complaints in military higher than official figures, watchdog says
Military ombudsman receives dozens of sex assault, harassment complaints not counted by Defence Dept.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/militar ... -1.3598589

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

$1:

Real number of sex assault complaints in military higher than official figures, watchdog says
Military ombudsman receives dozens of sex assault, harassment complaints not counted by Defence Dept.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/militar ... -1.3598589

Fair enough. I guess the military has changed since I was in because that's not how we operated back in the day. Of course we had discipline and esprit de corps things which have been beaten out of the military by a succession of government mandated bullshit PC edicts that, along with eroding any pride in your Service, Unit, Branch or Trade, have allowed the unfit, unsuitable and unstable to enlist because you wouldn't want to see any of these assholes not get their participation ribbon.

Call me a dinosaur but, since sexual assault against other military members was unheard of before we got all politically correct, the easiest way to stop it would be to stop allowing women in combat roles and stop enlisting gays. End of problem and I don't care who the fuck it offends.