[Newsbot]

Title: MacKay says chopper deal 'worst' in Canada's history
Category: Military
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2012-07-10 14:05:17
Canadian

[uwish]

I do agree, this has been a cluster from start to now. I just hope the government uses every clause in the contract to penalize Sikorsky. These delays are starting to look like we might have ordered a lemon!

[Hyack]

The only penalty having being paid so far is the $500 million in cancellation fees incurred when the Liberals took power and axed the deal. The only ones going to lose money on this deal is, as usual, the Canadian taxpayer.

[bootlegga]

Hyack Hyack:

The only penalty having being paid so far is the $500 million in cancellation fees incurred when the Liberals took power and axed the deal. The only ones going to lose money on this deal is, as usual, the Canadian taxpayer.

Actually, the government has levied $88 million in penalties against Sikorsky - the only question is whether or not we will actually deduct it from future payments as planned, or if some lobbyist will convince them not to.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/562 ... ected-year

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Can ... ver-05223/

Still, for all the delays and BS, the penalty should have been much higher IMO.

[BartSimpson]

A few comments:

*If the Liberals had not killed the 1992 replacement contract we'd not be having this discussion at all.

*If Canada had gone with the S-92 as designed you'd have these things on time. Instead Canada essentially had Sikorsky redesign the S-92 into a semi-amphibious machine and then added other specs that made it overweight for the original engines, then it required a new engine, too.

* It would have been produced faster absent Canadian-content requirements which made Sikorsky dependent upon Canadian vendors providing components that could not infringe on the patents of US vendors who were already tooled up to produce the components. Thus you had Canadian vendors literally reinventing a US component from scratch. Sorry, kids, but this is the same story in every one of your international purchases. It's also a big reason why you'll never have the Eurofighter and that's because the Europeans are not going to reinvent their proven fighter just to make you happy.

* Where the substantially new helicopter was so different from the S-92 that had previously been approved for export by the Dept. of Defense, the Dept. of Commerce, and the State Department it had to be put through the approval process anew to satisfy US laws regarding the export or trade of arms.

[xerxes]

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

[DrCaleb]

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

They are pretty much neck and neck right now; we don't have any of ethier aircraft.

[Regina]

I doubt the RCAF will wait over 20 years for their next generation fighter, even if it is the F-35. As of yet there is no deal for the F-35 but we shall see I suppose.

[saturn_656]

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

F-35 deal isn't final. I think MHP as a slim lead on the Victoria subs when it comes to "worst deal".

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

The F-35 is a turkey, I agree. I figure Romney will kill the F-35 and bring back the F-22 in order to keep the Boeing plant in Wichita, Kansas busy.

Chatter has it that the USAF is talking to Boeing about a new production run on the A-10 given that the F-35 ground attack variant sucks and won't perform to spec even in loaded simulations.

EDIT: The F-35 sucks a$$ even in video games like Battlefield 3.

Were I able to advise the RCAF I'd say take a pass on the F-35 and order up a new run of the CF-18.

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

The F-35 is a turkey, I agree. I figure Romney will kill the F-35 and bring back the F-22 in order to keep the Boeing plant in Wichita, Kansas busy.

Chatter has it that the USAF is talking to Boeing about a new production run on the A-10 given that the F-35 ground attack variant sucks and won't perform to spec even in loaded simulations.

EDIT: The F-35 sucks a$$ even in video games like Battlefield 3.

Were I able to advise the RCAF I'd say take a pass on the F-35 and order up a new run of the CF-18.

This.

[xerxes]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

The F-35 is a turkey, I agree. I figure Romney will kill the F-35 and bring back the F-22 in order to keep the Boeing plant in Wichita, Kansas busy.

Chatter has it that the USAF is talking to Boeing about a new production run on the A-10 given that the F-35 ground attack variant sucks and won't perform to spec even in loaded simulations.

EDIT: The F-35 sucks a$$ even in video games like Battlefield 3.

Were I able to advise the RCAF I'd say take a pass on the F-35 and order up a new run of the CF-18.

Doesn't Fairchild-Republic make the A-10 though?

Either way, spot on Bartman. Though I can't see the F-22 program being revived myself.

I don't know why the RCAF had to go for the untested F-35 when we should have gone for the F/A-18 E/F. Considering how much mileage we've gotten out of the CF-18's it should have been an obvious next step as it was for the RAAF.

[jeff744]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

The F-35 is a turkey, I agree. I figure Romney will kill the F-35 and bring back the F-22 in order to keep the Boeing plant in Wichita, Kansas busy.

Chatter has it that the USAF is talking to Boeing about a new production run on the A-10 given that the F-35 ground attack variant sucks and won't perform to spec even in loaded simulations.

EDIT: The F-35 sucks a$$ even in video games like Battlefield 3.

Were I able to advise the RCAF I'd say take a pass on the F-35 and order up a new run of the CF-18.

Why must you say something like this? Now I have to agree with you.

[Gunnair]

jeff744 jeff744:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

xerxes xerxes:

I still think the chopper deal is going to have to work to beat the F-35 deal as the worst in Canadian history.

The F-35 is a turkey, I agree. I figure Romney will kill the F-35 and bring back the F-22 in order to keep the Boeing plant in Wichita, Kansas busy.

Chatter has it that the USAF is talking to Boeing about a new production run on the A-10 given that the F-35 ground attack variant sucks and won't perform to spec even in loaded simulations.

EDIT: The F-35 sucks a$$ even in video games like Battlefield 3.

Were I able to advise the RCAF I'd say take a pass on the F-35 and order up a new run of the CF-18.

Why must you say something like this? Now I have to agree with you.

I'll have to have a glass of wine or two to fell less sullied.

[saturn_656]

xerxes xerxes:

Doesn't Fairchild-Republic make the A-10 though?

Either way, spot on Bartman. Though I can't see the F-22 program being revived myself.

I don't know why the RCAF had to go for the untested F-35 when we should have gone for the F/A-18 E/F. Considering how much mileage we've gotten out of the CF-18's it should have been an obvious next step as it was for the RAAF.

Fairchild-Republic doesn't exist anymore. What remains of the company belongs to Elbit Systems of Israel.

Back when the Air Command bought the CF-18, it was largely untested as well. Canada was the international launch customer for the product. Just because something is "new" isn't necessarily a good reason to stay away.

As far as the RAAF, they didn't buy the E/F as a legacy Hornet replacement, it was to "replace" their F-111 tactical bombers.