[Newsbot]

Title: LIGO makes gravitational wave announcement Thursday
Category: Science
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2016-02-10 19:34:07
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

I think this is the last prediction that Einstien's theory of Relativity makes that has yet to be proven experementally. If it's proven, then Relativity is definitely the best description we have of the Universe.

[DrCaleb]

And, as expected, confirmed!

$1:

Livingston, Louisiana -- In large, joint press event today, the scientists behind the LIGO experiment announced the first direct detection of gravitational waves, ripples in the fabric of space generated by strong gravitational interactions. The news, following weeks of rumors, confirms a major prediction of general relativity, comes a century after Einstein first formulated the theory.

The waves, produced in the final moments of a black hole merger, arrived precisely at 5:51 in the morning (US Eastern), and were picked up by both LIGO detectors—one in Louisiana, one in Washington. Since the Louisiana detector picked up the signal a few milliseconds sooner, the event that produced the gravitational waves occurred in the Southern Hemisphere.

"The description of this observation is beautifully described in the Einstein theory of general relativity formulated 100 years ago," said MIT professor Rainer Weiss, part of the team that first proposed LIGO. He said it "comprises the first test of the theory in strong gravitation."

Gravitational waves are a consequence of general relativity. They're generated when two massive bodies are in close orbit around each other. Rather than entering a stable orbit, their interactions produce gravitational waves, ripples in the fabric of space. These waves carry energy away from the system, allowing the orbits to decay, eventually leading to a merger of the system.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/ ... nal-waves/

[BartSimpson]

Interesting. This puts us a step closer to harvesting gravity as an energy source.

[DrCaleb]

A little more detail.

$1:

All objects emit gravitational waves when they orbit each other, including Earth orbiting the sun. But as these two black holes circled each other, the energy they lost to gravitational waves was enough to bring them much closer together – causing them to distort space-time further and emit even more gravitational waves.

That set them on track to collide and merge into one bigger black hole. “It’s a runaway process,” says Frans Pretorius, of Princeton University in New Jersey. “The closer they get, the faster they spin.” Near the end, they were whirling so fast that each orbit lasted just a few milliseconds.

When they eventually merged, the single black hole that remained was 62 times the mass of the sun – three solar masses lighter than the two original black holes combined. That missing mass all went into creating gravitational waves that fluttered space-time like a sheet.

“The total power output of gravitational waves during the brief collision was 50 times greater than all of the power put out by all the of the stars in the universe put together,” said Kip Thorne of Caltech, one of LIGO’s founders. “It’s unbelievable.”

https://www.newscientist.com/article/20 ... irst-time/

And I say again,

[BartSimpson]

And I say that's a boatload of energy that we can tap into.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And I say that's a boatload of energy that we can tap into.

A staggering amount of energy! Just imagine how much time was also distorted in the presence of that amount of gravity! Millisecond orbital times!

I agree it's a lot of energy, but there are still things we need to answer about gravity before it's exploitable. Like, why is it so weak but why can it affect things over such a distance?

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I agree it's a lot of energy, but there are still things we need to answer about gravity before it's exploitable. Like, why is it so weak but why can it affect things over such a distance?

And, more importantly, how would us tapping it as an energy source affect it and it's interactions with other bodies?

Not that this would be an immediate concern, but if we unlock a massive energy source, we will consume a massive amount of energy in very short order.

[DrCaleb]

peck420 peck420:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I agree it's a lot of energy, but there are still things we need to answer about gravity before it's exploitable. Like, why is it so weak but why can it affect things over such a distance?

And, more importantly, how would us tapping it as an energy source affect it and it's interactions with other bodies?

Not that this would be an immediate concern, but if we unlock a massive energy source, we will consume a massive amount of energy in very short order.

When you think about the relative forces, like the strong EM force - it's equivalent to a grain of sand on a beach keeping a grain of sand on the dark side of the moon in check. That's roughly the scale of what a proton and electron do in a hydrogen atom.

Now, you and I in the same room do not suddenly gravitationaly merge together into a sphere of matter, because gravity is so much weaker. Despite all the mass close together, it has relatively no force compared to the others. A simple magnet can counteract the mass of the entire Earth, if you are a small ball bearing. The strong EM force of the matter on the edge of a surface is easily enough to keep us falling through a floor when the pull of the Earth is acting on us.

I don't think that using gravity as an energy source is going to affect much of the matter around us. Especially if we find a way for gravity to repel as well as attract. It'll just be a simple matter -> energy conversion, with a very small amount of matter.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And I say that's a boatload of energy that we can tap into.

A staggering amount of energy! Just imagine how much time was also distorted in the presence of that amount of gravity! Millisecond orbital times!

I agree it's a lot of energy, but there are still things we need to answer about gravity before it's exploitable. Like, why is it so weak but why can it affect things over such a distance?

The other question to answer is at what speed does gravitational effect travel?

If it's FTL then that might be really, really interesting.

[stratos]

$1:

If it's FTL then that might be really, really interesting.

By just the power that is being said it produces FTL speed is very reachable.

$1:

“The total power output of gravitational waves during the brief collision was 50 times greater than all of the power put out by all the of the stars in the universe put together,” said Kip Thorne of Caltech, one of LIGO’s founders. “It’s unbelievable.”

I'm with Dr. Caleb in my reaction

[BartSimpson]

peck420 peck420:

Not that this would be an immediate concern, but if we unlock a massive energy source, we will consume a massive amount of energy in very short order.

What's wrong with humanity having access to abundant, clean, cheap energy?

[peck420]

I don't know if that is an accurate assessment, Dr. C.

As I stated, I doubt this would be an immediate concern, much like global warming (an unintended consequence) was a concern when the first ICE were developed and utilized.

My concern is what happens when humanity is given another relatively cheap energy source, and it is being tapped at rates that we can't even currently conceive.

Even if it is a simple matter -> energy conversion, that conversion isn't going to be 100%. There will be loses. What happens when an odd 7 billion of us are contributing to those losses? What about when we are at 20 billion? 100 billion?

With great power comes great....squirrel!

[peck420]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What's wrong with humanity having access to abundant, clean, cheap energy?

The abuses that comes with abundant and cheap.

I don't know about you, but I am getting sick of the unintended consequences deal, and would like people to actually have a good think about what happens when we abuse something. Not if, but when. We are humans, we are legion, we are going to have at least some ass hats that will abuse the shit out it. Best plan for that right from the get go.

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

If it's FTL then that might be really, really interesting.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The other question to answer is at what speed does gravitational effect travel?

If it's FTL then that might be really, really interesting.

Now that another Relativity prediction by Einstein has been shown to be right, the the prediction that matter can't travel faster than light must also be true.

BUT! Forces may travel faster than light! There was a recent experiment that showed effect can travel faster than light, even if matter can't.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/08/ ... l-reality/

peck420 peck420:

I don't know if that is an accurate assessment, Dr. C.

As I stated, I doubt this would be an immediate concern, much like global warming (an unintended consequence) was a concern when the first ICE were developed and utilized.

My concern is what happens when humanity is given another relatively cheap energy source, and it is being tapped at rates that we can't even currently conceive.

Even if it is a simple matter -> energy conversion, that conversion isn't going to be 100%. There will be loses. What happens when an odd 7 billion of us are contributing to those losses? What about when we are at 20 billion? 100 billion?

With great power comes great....squirrel!

I think it will come down to if that matter to energy conversion is an ongoing process, or a one time. If creating 'antigravity' is a single event, or if it needs to keep happening. After all , gravity isn't always being created, is it? The Earth doesn't lose mass in it's distorting of space time due to create its force of gravity?