[Newsbot]

Title: It's a paradox: high unemployment with serious labour shortages
Category: Business
Posted By: stokes
Date: 2011-02-19 20:26:56
Canadian

[CommanderSock]

It's because the school systems train peasants, while the workforce demands elites.

Our high schools don't teach our youth practical working skills, and our universities teach them (for a high price) mostly useless theoretical concepts that don't translate into working skills.

[Brenda]

It's also because employers want you to be available for shifts around the clock paying minimum wage, that you cannot live on, yet you have to bring a college/uni degree..

[Lemmy]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

It's because the school systems train peasants, while the workforce demands elites.

Our high schools don't teach our youth practical working skills, and our universities teach them (for a high price) mostly useless theoretical concepts that don't translate into working skills.

You're confusing education and job-training. Public education's purpose is to educate, not job-train. Universities' purpose is to eductate, not job-train. You want job-training, take an apprenticeship or go to a vocational college.

The reason there's unemployment and a labour shortage is that too many of our youth are lazy, spoiled brats that think they're entitled to high paying jobs without any effort on their part. Fortunately we have immigration so we have a steady stream of people who ARE willing to put in a day's work.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

It's because the school systems train peasants, while the workforce demands elites.

Our high schools don't teach our youth practical working skills, and our universities teach them (for a high price) mostly useless theoretical concepts that don't translate into working skills.

You're confusing education and job-training. Public education's purpose is to educate, not job-train. Universities' purpose is to eductate, not job-train. You want job-training, take an apprenticeship or go to a vocational college.

There reason there's unemployment and a labour shortage is that too many of our youth are lazy, spoiled brats that think they're entitled to high paying jobs without any effort on their part.

Or is it employers who think they are entitled to high skilled and high educated people but not willing to pay shit?

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

Or is it employers who think they are entitled to high skilled and high educated people but not willing to pay shit?

Perhaps, but I've interviewed a lot of business owners and the overwhelming thing I hear from employers is "If I could find someone willing to work, I'd be happy to pay them as much as they want."

[CommanderSock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

It's because the school systems train peasants, while the workforce demands elites.

Our high schools don't teach our youth practical working skills, and our universities teach them (for a high price) mostly useless theoretical concepts that don't translate into working skills.

You're confusing education and job-training. Public education's purpose is to educate, not job-train. There reason there's unemployment and a labour shortage is that too many of our youth are lazy, spoiled brats that think they're entitled to high paying jobs without any effort on their part.

Easier said, than lived.

Financial district of Toronto is a great example, go to workopolis and have a look at some of the 'wish list' requirements for some lowly accounting clerk position that pays $12.00/hour, (not a livable Toronto wage btw).

Usually something along the lines of; 5-10 years experience (for entry level position) university education, overtime flexibility, etc. A joke IMO. Our kids are better off selling drugs, no experience, no university education, and no overtime necessary all the while having a livable wage.

I'm not denying there's spoiled brats out there, but a university degree, or 10 years experience shouldn't be a requirement for an entry level job $12/hr. The pre-university education system should be able to produce workers who can do more than serve coffee and fries. You shouldn't need a university degree to do clerical or secretary work.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

Or is it employers who think they are entitled to high skilled and high educated people but not willing to pay shit?

Perhaps, but I've interviewed a lot of business owners and the overwhelming thing I hear from employers is "If I could find someone willing to work, I'd be happy to pay them as much as they want."

Have them call me, will you?
Oh wait, they won't take the effort, even when you personally bring your resume, or even went for an interview.

[Lemmy]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Easier said, than lived.

Financial district of Toronto is a great example, go to workopolis and have a look at some of the 'wish list' requirements for some lowly accounting clerk position that pays $12.00/hour, (not a livable Toronto wage btw).

Usually something along the lines of; 5-10 years experience (for entry level position) university education, overtime flexibility, etc. A joke IMO. Our kids are better off selling drugs, no experience, no university education, and no overtime necessary all the while having a livable wage.

I'm not denying there's spoiled brats out there, but a university degree, or 10 years experience shouldn't be a requirement for an entry level job $12/hr. The pre-university education system should be able to produce workers who can do more than serve coffee and fries. You shouldn't need a university degree to do clerical or secretary work.

A university degree ISN'T a requirement for an entry level job. But employers know that such a HUGE percentage of the entry level labour force are lazy, useless kids that employers have to use what we call in labour economics "Signalling theory". They need separate the wheat from the chaff. I guarantee you that someone with nothing but a highschool education could easily get that $12/hr job with a little initiative. But that's not the way the typical job-seeker operates. They expect to be handed the keys to the executive washroom on the first day.

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Easier said, than lived.

Financial district of Toronto is a great example, go to workopolis and have a look at some of the 'wish list' requirements for some lowly accounting clerk position that pays $12.00/hour, (not a livable Toronto wage btw).

Usually something along the lines of; 5-10 years experience (for entry level position) university education, overtime flexibility, etc. A joke IMO. Our kids are better off selling drugs, no experience, no university education, and no overtime necessary all the while having a livable wage.

I'm not denying there's spoiled brats out there, but a university degree, or 10 years experience shouldn't be a requirement for an entry level job $12/hr. The pre-university education system should be able to produce workers who can do more than serve coffee and fries. You shouldn't need a university degree to do clerical or secretary work.

A university degree ISN'T a requirement for an entry level job. But employers know that such a HUGE percentage of the entry level labour force are lazy, useless kids that employers have to use what we call in labour economics "Signalling theory". They need separate the wheat from the chaff. I guarantee you that someone with nothing but a highschool education could easily get that $12/hr job with a little initiative. But that's not the way the typical job-seeker operates. They expect to be handed the keys to the executive washroom on the first day.

BS.
I don't know where you live, but here, that is just NOT true.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

The reason there's unemployment and a labour shortage is that too many of our youth are lazy, spoiled brats that think they're entitled to high paying jobs without any effort on their part. Fortunately we have immigration so we have a steady stream of people who ARE willing to put in a day's work.

From the article:

$1:

But one paradox, mysterious and misunderstood, seems to be tormenting almost every country today: simultaneous large-scale unemployment and large-scale labour shortages. Almost every government, from Beijing to Ottawa, is nowadays forced to use immigration to fill job shortages, at the same time as it devotes expensive social programs to helping the jobless. This, to put it mildly, has been creating tensions.

So according to you we have to import Chinese because Canadians are lazy, while Bejing has to also import workers? What, did all the Chinese with a work ethic come here and the ones remaining in Bejing are the lazy ones?

The usual crap spewed blaming the workers, while the bosses keep tightening the screws. It's a neo-con wonderland. Treat people well at their jobs (respect, pay, working conditions) and they'll work hard for you. But because with globalization business has to compete with places where workers are treated like expendable pieces of shit, and there's tons of poor people willing to take their place, we're starting with the 3rd world practices over here too. Ain't globalization grand: huge wealth for the few, technoserfdom for the rest, if they're lucky. Wow have we changed our cultural values in Canada from "a chicken in every pot."

[QBC]

Brenda Brenda:

Lemmy Lemmy:

A university degree ISN'T a requirement for an entry level job. But employers know that such a HUGE percentage of the entry level labour force are lazy, useless kids that employers have to use what we call in labour economics "Signalling theory". They need separate the wheat from the chaff. I guarantee you that someone with nothing but a highschool education could easily get that $12/hr job with a little initiative. But that's not the way the typical job-seeker operates. They expect to be handed the keys to the executive washroom on the first day.

BS.
I don't know where you live, but here, that is just NOT true.

What Lemmy said is the same as my experience for the most part and I've lived all over BC and now in Alberta. Even in the economically depressed area of the Cariboo that I lived for many years, those who wanted to work during the hard times all were working and most of them at best had a high school education. I guess it boils down to what you're prepared to do to earn a living. If a person believes entry level jobs are beneath them, then I guess they never get the chance to move up and get the keys to the executive washroom. Sometimes you have to shovel shit to grow some roses.

[andyt]

Welfare pays an single, employable person $610 a month. Do you really think a lot of people are choosing to not work because the living's so good on welfare?

This article is about skilled worker shortages, not entry level positions. If you're making your $8 an hour working 2 part time jobs (as employers prefer) do you really think it's feasible to also have the time and money for taking training? Where is all the on the job training? I worked as a roofer for a couple of years before going back to uni. No problem getting a unionized job as a roofers helper with decent pay. Then, once they'd checked me out, saw that I could learn and work hard, my employer suggested I become an apprentice, which would have seen me continue working, and then have some time off during the winter for training, funded by UIC. (I didn't do it because by that time I had decided to go back to school.) Where are those sorts of of the job programs now? To get a trade you have to go to BCIT on your own dime first, then hope you can find a position.

If employers want skilled workers they need to do like they used to. Don't treat them as expendable robots that get cut every time you down size, but invest in them with training. Treat them well, and you'll get good work out of them in return. Most people I know want to do a good job, feel pride in their work. If they have an employer that recognizes and rewards that, they'll do well by him in return.

[herbie]

Let me relate what you get for labour these days. After giving up in frustration over hiring kids at my store, I go to Home Hardware to buy some supplies. It comes to $97.30. I giver the 40+ lady at the counter a $100 and three dimes. She punches in that I gave her $100.50 gives me $1.20 back and that starts the ball rolling. Three times she comes back with $1.20.
So I do the patient routine I do with my 16 yr old trainees. It doesn't matter WTF you punched in. The bill is $97.30. You're looking at the $100.30 so you go 1 loonie = $98.30, 2 loonies = $99.30, three makes $100.30
No! No! No! No! NO!
She tries with three different calculators and won't stop punching in the wrong amount tendered....
I finally call over her supervisor, the cashier is just fuming and snapping nasty remarks.
.... the supervisor pulls out a fucking calculator... takes three tries to come up with $3.00 change....

[Brenda]

That's what you get when you pay people $8/hr for years without a raise. Would you care?