[Newsbot]

Title: He's considered Canada's founding father, but many Ontario teachers want his name stripped from public schools
Category: Strange
Posted By: shockedcanadian
Date: 2017-08-24 07:26:44
Canadian

[uwish]

just because we don't like history doesn't mean we should hide it. If that was the case, we shouldn't be teaching about the holocaust or any other dark part of our history. You embrace and learn from it and not try to hide it.

[martin14]

Many teachers just can't wait to virtue signal, this bandwagon bullshit is getting stupid.

Some people really need to be slapped down... hard.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

Some people really need to be slapped down... hard.

Agreed there. MacDonald did what he probably thought was the right thing to do. Let's acknowledge he was wrong without erasing him from history.

[BeaverFever]

I couldn't really care one way or another but I'll just point out that it's a false argument to claim that refusing to honour someone as a hero with monuments, place names etc. Is "erasing them from history". There are no longer any statues or school names honouring Hitler but it would be laughable to say he's been "erased from history". And no I'm not comparing John A to Hitler, the point is that statues and place names aren't just miscellaneous neutral symbols of history they are honours reserved for heroes we are supposed to admire.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I couldn't really care one way or another but I'll just point out that it's a false argument to claim that refusing to honour someone as a hero with monuments, place names etc. Is "erasing them from history".

Removing statues or changing the names of places that bear their name is an attempt to erase them from history. It might not make us forget about him, but if his name is removed, and his imaged removed from currency, and his contributions to confederacy are not taught in school; then our grandchildren might not remember him. And that is how erasure works.

And your Hitler argument is kind of flawed. Look how many of the youth look to him with some sort of reverence, simply because they don't know or remember the affects he had on the world. Because the world tried to forget about him . . .

[BeaverFever]

I don't think you'll find any Germanss or many people elsewhere in the world who are unaware if Hitlers evil. That's why Godwins law exists, because he's pretty much the only person in history wjo is universally regarded as evil.

It's a pretty bizarre argument to claim that if only we had schools named after Hitler and grand statues in the town square depicting him riding mightily on a charging stallion he would be somehow LESS revered and people would be more likely to consider him evil. The neo-nazis and their ilk are just the inevitable stupid fringe groups that will always exist regardless.

Let me ask another question: Do you think we should name a school after Osama bin Laden then?

[housewife]

Oh for crying out loud. With hindsight, 100 plus years and no real understanding of life in the time period some of his decisions didn't work out. After all this time it doesn't really matter. The decisions were made removing his name from schools will not change that. It's not like he acted alone or that it was a really new idea for the time. Nothing is ever that black or white. So maybe they should start teaching history show how grey the world is instead of reciting dates and regurgitating whatever facts are trending now.

I really doubt that there is any adult in the world who doesn't regret a decision or two with hindsight and more info. Can't change it

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I don't think you'll find any Germanss or many people elsewhere in the world who are unaware if Hitlers evil. That's why Godwins law exists, because he's pretty much the only person in history wjo is universally regarded as evil.

And yet, in India they know little about him.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -down.html

And you might want to look up Godwin's law, if you are unfamiliar with it.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's a pretty bizarre argument to claim that if only we had schools named after Hitler and grand statues in the town square depicting him riding mightily on a charging stallion he would be somehow LESS revered and people would be more likely to consider him evil. The neo-nazis and their ilk are just the inevitable stupid fringe groups that will always exist regardless.

Well it's good that I didn't make that argument, isn't it?

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Let me ask another question: Do you think we should name a school after Osama bin Laden then?

Let me ask you this, why do you think nobody plays with you anymore?

[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And yet, in India they know little about him.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -down.html

So....India should have named more schools and landmarks after Hitler to prevent this? Is that your point?

$1:

And you might want to look up Godwin's law, if you are unfamiliar with it.q

I don't understand what point are you trying to make here. My only point us that everyone knows who Hitler is, despite not having any landmarks or schools named after him

$1:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's a pretty bizarre argument to claim that if only we had schools named after Hitler and grand statues in the town square depicting him riding mightily on a charging stallion he would be somehow LESS revered and people would be more likely to consider him evil. The neo-nazis and their ilk are just the inevitable stupid fringe groups that will always exist regardless.

Well it's good that I didn't make that argument, isn't it?

So remind me again what your position on naming things after Hitler is.

$1:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Let me ask another question: Do you think we should name a school after Osama bin Laden then?

Let me ask you this, why do you think nobody plays with you anymore?

Lots of people play with me. Don't dodge the question.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And yet, in India they know little about him.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -down.html

So....India should have named more schools and landmarks after Hitler to prevent this? Is that your point?

No, that was the point you made and tried to attribute to me. My point was that Hitlers legacy isn't touched on in India, so he has been erased from history.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

And you might want to look up Godwin's law, if you are unfamiliar with it.q

I don't understand what point are you trying to make here. My only point us that everyone knows who Hitler is, despite not having any landmarks or schools named after him

No, your attempt to be outrageous was that all the schools named after Hitler have gone, but we still remember him. My point was that we still learn about him in school, which is why he is remembered. That and the History Hitler channel with its 'all Hitler all the time' weekends.

People see those documentaries, and forget just how evil humans can be, given the means.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's a pretty bizarre argument to claim that if only we had schools named after Hitler and grand statues in the town square depicting him riding mightily on a charging stallion he would be somehow LESS revered and people would be more likely to consider him evil. The neo-nazis and their ilk are just the inevitable stupid fringe groups that will always exist regardless.

Well it's good that I didn't make that argument, isn't it?

So remind me again what your position on naming things after Hitler is.

I didn't state one.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Let me ask another question: Do you think we should name a school after Osama bin Laden then?

Let me ask you this, why do you think nobody plays with you anymore?

Lots of people play with me. Don't dodge the question.

Good debate etiquette demands that the fallacy of 'begging the question' is to be ignored.

[raydan]

I'm sure that if we looked closely at every historical figure, good or bad, we'd find at least one thing about him that at least one person is outraged about.



Maybe we should just outlaw history.

[BeaverFever]

So then we are back to my original point, which is :

$1:

It's a false argument to claim that refusing to honour someone as a hero with monuments, place names etc. Is "erasing them from history".

Nothing in that quote indicates that his deeds both good and bad should be removed from the history books. But if your bad deeds are bad enough, maybe you don't also deserve the privilege of having statues and landmarks in your honour. In fact maybe nobody should. The whole notion of heroes and hero worship is flawed concept.

[xerxes]

raydan raydan:

I'm sure that if we looked closely at every historical figure, good or bad, we'd find at least one thing about him that at least one person is outraged about.



Maybe we should just outlaw history.

Exactly. No one is a saint and expecting people to be is the height of naive. Yeah Sir John A did some shitty things to natives. He was also a booze hound. BFD.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

John A. MacDonald was a man, with a vision, that became the driving force behind bringing Canada to life, which he did. Was he perfect? No. He was a human being, like the rest of us, so he definitely wasn't perfect. He made mistakes, like a lot of us do. He was an alcholic, and might not have been the most diplomatic when it came to the 'natives'.

That having been said, he championed the Canadian vision, and turned it into reality. He had enough guts and courage to create a nation like no other. Where others just saw vast open land and hostility, MacDonald saw opportunity. To now try to erase traces of the man who make us what we are through his dream, is WRONG. If it wasn't for men like him, we likely wouldn't be here right now bickering over things like this.

If we do not learn from history, we will be doomed to keep repeating it and learning nothing in the process. For people to want to erase everything and pretend it didn't happen is sheer human ignorance and arrogance. What have we become as a society to want to do things like this just because of a percentage of malcontents that are never happy no matter what gets done? What have we become as a society to want to live inside of a bubble-wrapped box and become shielded from the world?

Sad times indeed.

-J.