[Newsbot]

Title: Harassment in Canada's military tolerated by leadership, former justice finds
Category: Military
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2015-04-30 11:08:21
Canadian

[andyt]

Not really surprising - look at some of the representatives of the military we have on this board. Macho culture indeed. I guess this is TMB, it's their culture that makes them do these things - and most of course are never caught.

[Jabberwalker]

it's their culture that makes them do these things

Do what things? I've never sexually assaulted anybody, full stop.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

Not really surprising - look at some of the representatives of the military we have on this board. Macho culture indeed. I guess this is TMB, it's their culture that makes them do these things - and most of course are never caught.

Andy intelligence on full display, again.

Oh yeah, you're a fucking waste of oxygen fuckhead.

[andyt]

You must be an outlier. Just as the rioting blacks in Baltimore are representative of their community, so must be the the harassers in the military be representative of it. We just need some clever names for them, like bongo party for the blacks.

And just because you didn't assault anybody, did you stand by while someone else harassed a woman? I mean the blacks in general are responsible for stopping the rioters, then shouldn't you be responsible for stopping the harrassers?

[Jabberwalker]

andyt andyt:

You must be an outlier. Just as the rioting blacks in Baltimore are representative of their community, so must be the the harassers in the military be representative of it. We just need some clever names for them, like bongo party for the blacks.

And just because you didn't assault anybody, did you stand by while someone else harassed a woman? I mean the blacks in general are responsible for stopping the rioters, then shouldn't you be responsible for stopping the harrassers?

Actually, no Andy. I've never done that either, nor do I know anyone who (as far as I'm aware) ever raped anybody, anywhere.

Most people in or out of the Forces are decent human beings. In fact, those who have served are often pretty civic minded, in my experience.

[andyt]

I don't doubt it. Perhaps people could extend the same courtesy to black people instead of lumping them all in with the rioters. Or when a native kills somebody, it's because of native culture, when a white does it it's just one bad apple. See my point?

And, you do seem to be trying to minimize a problem that, according the the report is pretty bad. Maybe you just didn't notice it because it is so much part of the culture?

[Jabberwalker]

Maybe, I was in the Forces decades before the operational part was "co-ed" and none of this was an issue.

[andyt]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Maybe, I was in the Forces decades before the operational part was "co-ed" and none of this was an issue.

There you go. You may not be the guy to talk about this. Very much doubt that years ago "macho culture and denigration of women were not issues."

[Freakinoldguy]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

it's their culture that makes them do these things

Do what things? I've never sexually assaulted anybody, full stop.

I'd say 99.99% of us never have but, since the American Military has this widely publicised problem Canada, by extension, must also have it.

I have yet to meet any military member who has committed a sexual assault, was a victim of a sexual assault, turned a blind eye to a sexual assault or was even charged with the sexual assault of a shipmate.


I had the privilege of serving long before and for a short time after the integration of females and homosexuals. So I've sailed with numerous females and gays, even before the latter were allowed out of the closet and at no time did I ever see, rapes, sexual assaults or harassment on the scale Marie Deschamps is claiming which makes me wonder what the criteria for the investigation was.

From my experience in mixed gender units and shore establishments, any claims of harassment, assault or sexual misconduct of any kind were dealt with immediately and if the Divisional System couldn't handle the problem it was referred up the chain of command. So, this leadership turning a blind eye allegation in my experience is utter bullshit especially considering the Senior Officers were terrified of someone making allegations.

So unless the military changed alot in the 13 years I've been retired I'd say there was likely alot of smoke and mirrors used to come to this damning conclusion. Especially considering the military now is nowhere near as macho as it was back in the 60's and 70's.


Also from my experience at sea, the only difference for the women onboard was that they were treated the same as the males but with the obvious exceptions of their own mess decks, heads and washplaces. The Gays just lived among us and I guess everybody just lived by that American type policy of don't ask, don't tell. So, if anybody tells you there were no gays in the Navy or nobody knew who they were they're fucking delusional.

But hey, would it make MS Deschamps any happier if they removed all references to macho and replaced them with a politically correct gender neutral one like. Culture of Human Killing machines or, would she just prefer a military that more resembled the Girl Scouts than an effective fighting force.

[Delwin]

Well no, the report is based on actual sexual assaults and not some kind of anecdotal bullshit that you might find in say a forum:

$1:

An article published by Maclean's and L'actualité reviewed military statistics and said an average of about 178 incidents of sexual misconduct are investigated every year. The magazine suggested only about one in 10 assaults is typically reported, suggesting the number of incidents inside the military each year is likely more than 1,780, or about five per day.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/politics/haras ... -1.3055493

You can read the report here:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-communit ... nduct.page

[Freakinoldguy]

Delwin Delwin:

Well no, the report is based on actual sexual assaults and not some kind of anecdotal bullshit that you might find in say a forum:

$1:

An article published by Maclean's and L'actualité reviewed military statistics and said an average of about 178 incidents of sexual misconduct are investigated every year. The magazine suggested only about one in 10 assaults is typically reported, suggesting the number of incidents inside the military each year is likely more than 1,780, or about five per day.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/politics/haras ... -1.3055493

You can read the report here:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-communit ... nduct.page

There may have been 178 incidents of sexual misconduct but how the fuck can they say only one in 10 were reported if, they weren't reported? Oh yeah, anonymously which means they were never verified. Did those 178 incidents result in charges being laid and convictions or were they just, allegations.

So is that one in 10 a random number generated by a survey like the health and welfare one they did back in 02 or is it based on unfounded allegations over a phone hotline or web page? Did they lump all harassment allegations in with sexual misconduct or did someone actually sit down and differentiate the allegations?

Those are the questions that need answering before anyone starts to tar the entire military with the sexually depraved group of neanderthals moniker.

Is there an underlying sexual culture that is hostile to women? In some cases it's probably still there because that mentality has been in existence since the Gov't forced changes on the military that some people didn't want to accept. But if these reports of rampant sexual assaults and harassment are anywhere near true then the military has changed alot since I retired and for the worse. The one thing I'll agree with the talking heads about though is the fact that "NO" military member should "ever" have to defend themselves not only against the enemy but against their own shipmates.

So if this report is even somewhat reflective of the military today and not just overblown sensationalism then there has been a giant failing by the senior officers and senior NCO's who, have allowed this culture of disrespect and hate to revive itself from the ashes of what their predecessors tried to eliminate because, in my day it wouldn't have been tolerated, whether you agreed with the policies or not.

Oh and BTW your first link doesn't work.

[andyt]

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

Another self-portrait andy?

[BartSimpson]

Yep, get rid of the manly culture of the military and get rid of the rugged types of guys who enjoy living in substandard conditions for weeks on end in life-threatening situations. And then repopulate the military with a bunch of sensitive types who are more worried about multiculturalism, diversity, and offending anyone than they are about killing Canada's enemies.

Yeah you do that. And when the manly men from Russia or China (or Denmark) decide to invade your country you can watch your new military spend more time prosecuting its own soldiers for 'war crimes' (like, you know, shooting at the enemy) than they will invest in their mission.

Emasculate your military at your own peril.