[Newsbot]

Title: Government (Greece) wins confidence vote
Category: World
Posted By: stemmer
Date: 2011-06-22 04:30:15

[QBall]

$1:

Bakoyannis�s proposal does not focus on public sector spending cuts and tax increases but foresees the creation of a national investment fund that would be partly financed by revenue from the privatization of state assets.

Looks like the Acropolis is going to be up for sale soon. This proposal is the reason why Greece and most of Europe is in the mess they're in. Focusing on the revenue side (and a long shot revenue source BTW) while ignoring costs is a recipe for disaster. Dora the Explorer should be ignored.

[Proculation]

QBall QBall:

$1:

Bakoyannis�s proposal does not focus on public sector spending cuts and tax increases but foresees the creation of a national investment fund that would be partly financed by revenue from the privatization of state assets.

Looks like the Acropolis is going to be up for sale soon. This proposal is the reason why Greece and most of Europe is in the mess they're in. Focusing on the revenue side (and a long shot revenue source BTW) while ignoring costs is a recipe for disaster. Dora the Explorer should be ignored.

One of the biggest problem in Greece is that most people evade taxes while the government is social democrat. It's like giving a credit card with a high ceiling to someone on welfare.

[andyt]

Yep, the problem is that the rich are avoiding taxes. This has been going on since the Ottoman empire, when tax avoidance was seen as a civic duty.

[Proculation]

andyt andyt:

Yep, the problem is that the rich are avoiding taxes. This has been going on since the Ottoman empire, when tax avoidance was seen as a civic duty.

Not just the rich andyt, everybody. Tax evasion is over 60% in Greece. There is not 60% of rich in Greece ! Stop that anti-success ideology for once.

[Lemmy]

But he's right, Proc. When rich people evade taxes it affects overall revenues. Poor people don't contribute enough for it to really matter to the bottom line. This is exactly why the USA is in deep budgetary shit as well. Tightening tax loopholes is certainly a wise idea moving forward, but it's not going to solve their current problems. And the EU bailing them out isn't going to solve things either. You don't help someone drowning in debt by giving them more debt. There needs to be some concessions made by Greece's creditors or this problem isn't going anywhere.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

There needs to be some concessions made by Greece's creditors or this problem isn't going anywhere.

Except that will cause another banking crisis that could even affect Canada. They don't seem to have anywhere to turn. There has got to be a way to have creditors assume the risk of their investments without collapsing the world's economy. Haven't heard any ideas tho.

[Lemmy]

andyt andyt:

Except that will cause another banking crisis that could even affect Canada. They don't seem to have anywhere to turn. There has got to be a way to have creditors assume the risk of their investments without collapsing the world's economy. Haven't heard any ideas tho.

Not "will" but "could". Lenders can make concessions without destroying the entire global credit system. The alternative is the debtor defaulting, which WOULD create unimaginable changes to the economy. Those changes may be coming anyway when the spotlight on budgetary crises switches from Greece to the USA.

[DanSC]

Proculation Proculation:

andyt andyt:

Yep, the problem is that the rich are avoiding taxes. This has been going on since the Ottoman empire, when tax avoidance was seen as a civic duty.

Not just the rich andyt, everybody. Tax evasion is over 60% in Greece. There is not 60% of rich in Greece ! Stop that anti-success ideology for once.

The problem is, no one can win an election on the platform, "We all need to pay more taxes." Elected officials win with a platform of, "You don't need to pay more taxes, but those other people do."

[andyt]

DanSC DanSC:

Proculation Proculation:

andyt andyt:

Yep, the problem is that the rich are avoiding taxes. This has been going on since the Ottoman empire, when tax avoidance was seen as a civic duty.

Not just the rich andyt, everybody. Tax evasion is over 60% in Greece. There is not 60% of rich in Greece ! Stop that anti-success ideology for once.

The problem is, no one can win an election on the platform, "We all need to pay more taxes." Elected officials win with a platform of, "You don't need to pay more taxes, but those other people do."

Or the US version - less taxes = more government revenue. It's a free lunch, basically and Americans are enjoying it. Don't interrupt them with reality while they're still feeding.

[DanSC]

andyt andyt:

Or the US version - less taxes = more government revenue.

That is a vast oversimplification. I imagine cutting the corporate tax rate to, say, Canada's level, would increase revenue, as companies might actually pay their corporate taxes in the States and not abroad.

[Proculation]

Lemmy Lemmy:

But he's right, Proc. When rich people evade taxes it affects overall revenues. Poor people don't contribute enough for it to really matter to the bottom line. This is exactly why the USA is in deep budgetary shit as well. Tightening tax loopholes is certainly a wise idea moving forward, but it's not going to solve their current problems. And the EU bailing them out isn't going to solve things either. You don't help someone drowning in debt by giving them more debt. There needs to be some concessions made by Greece's creditors or this problem isn't going anywhere.

Oh, I agree. But blaming only "the rich" for the problem is not fair for them. The problem is structural in the Greek population as a whole, not only the rich. And the other structural problem is their social democratic culture that government should provide the services for without paying for them.

[andyt]

Proculation Proculation:

Oh, I agree. But blaming only "the rich" for the problem is not fair for them. The problem is structural in the Greek population as a whole, not only the rich. And the other structural problem is their social democratic culture that government should provide the services for without paying for them.

Nice one. Bullshit tho.

[Brenda]

Proculation Proculation:

andyt andyt:

Yep, the problem is that the rich are avoiding taxes. This has been going on since the Ottoman empire, when tax avoidance was seen as a civic duty.

Not just the rich andyt, everybody. Tax evasion is over 60% in Greece. There is not 60% of rich in Greece ! Stop that anti-success ideology for once.

Absolutely true.
The best way to actually SEE it, is just to look at the buildings. None of them are finished. The moment you finish building, you have to pay taxes. So no body finishes their house and/or business buildings. It's actually funny to see all those buildings that are done, but look like they miss a floor

And that is only the visible avoidance

[Proculation]

andyt andyt:

Proculation Proculation:

Oh, I agree. But blaming only "the rich" for the problem is not fair for them. The problem is structural in the Greek population as a whole, not only the rich. And the other structural problem is their social democratic culture that government should provide the services for without paying for them.

Nice one. Bullshit tho.

How so?

Look at them in the streets right now.