[Newsbot]

Title: Gadhafi vows 'long war' after U.S. and allies strike
Category: Military
Posted By: wildrosegirl
Date: 2011-03-20 08:23:14
Canadian

[Guy_Fawkes]

I think he is right, or at least it is going to last much longer than people thought it would.

[CommanderSock]

If he really is using sub saharan mercenaries, this war could be really nasty. The reports are still unconfirmed, but the Sierra Leone, blood diamond torture human types aren't exactly going to roll over. And if reports are true, most of them are former rebels themselves who are used to being bombed by their own government's fighter jets, while they sport nothing more than AK-47s.

Thinking like an asshole here, but Qadafi could move in more Congo/Ugandan militias, or the LRA to come out the jungles. Those guys have been fighting as child soldiers as young as 6 years old. They probably know nothing other than war, they'd make a good challenge for any ground troops, even well equipped NATO ones.

[Guy_Fawkes]

I dont think it will come to that, certainly not under resolution 1973.

[CommanderSock]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

I dont think it will come to that, certainly not under resolution 1973.

If the aistrikers fail, then someone has to put boots on the ground.

[Guy_Fawkes]

No one has do anything, if the air strikes fail then the UN resolution failed. Game Over. Why should we risk a single soldier for Libya? I have seen enough of that in Afghanistan thank you.

[andyt]

I'm reading talk of putting in some special forces to act as spotters to make the air strikes more accurate. Since they waited so long to act, the rebels and army are not clearly separated, so it's difficult to know where to hit. Also, apparently Daffy's air defense systems are interspersed among populated areas, so there would be a lot of civilian causalities. Sounds like they left it too late - should have either acted sooner or don't bother.

I guess, tho, that NATO could put some boots on the ground and it wouldn't take much to defeat Daffy's troops. Especially if they offered the mercenaries some incetives to quit. Then, just get the fuck out and let the Libyans build their own society, without us trying to shape the outcome.

[Guy_Fawkes]

They shouldnt have acted, it should have been left up Libya's sister states or to the Arab League to deal with.
As for the get in get out comment, creating a power vacuum isnt going to solve much. You would just get someone from the Pro Gadafi crowd stepping up and we are back at square one.
Im starting to see this as a East/West Libya thing, Im starting to get the feeling this is going to turn into a peacekeeping mission. Kinda of like what happened with Cyprus.

[martin14]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

No one has do anything, if the air strikes fail then the UN resolution failed. Game Over. Why should we risk a single soldier for Libya? I have seen enough of that in Afghanistan thank you.

its all they are yakking about on the MSM,
preparing the people for boots on the ground.
Saw this happen before Iraq too.

Not sure, but I think the UN resolution is worded as "all necessary measures".
Thats a lot to play with.

Cyprus.. one side an unhappy Gaddafi and family, the other side the Islamic Emirate
of Bengazi.

Not really a good solution either.

[Guy_Fawkes]

They could just be talking to fill space, there are no new developments in Libya and the news day is pretty slow. So if they talk about sending in troops people keep watching the news.

Sending in ground troops will cost money and lives, something the west should not waste on Libya.

The only good solution to this would be Gadafi standing down and/or calling for a general election, in exchange for amnesty. We all know that is not going to fucking happen.

[andyt]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

They shouldnt have acted, it should have been left up Libya's sister states or to the Arab League to deal with.
As for the get in get out comment, creating a power vacuum isnt going to solve much. You would just get someone from the Pro Gadafi crowd stepping up and we are back at square one.

How is getting in and out to sway the force to the rebel's side any different than not acting as far as who gets into power? How would helping the rebels allow a pro Daffy person to get into power?

I don't think that makes sense. You army guys would maybe know better, but what I envision is some troops doing specific missions to take out the harder parts of Daffy's army, letting the rebels deal with the rest, and then getting out. Seems to me that would be possible, as long as they didn't get sucked into wanting to shape the outcome of the fight.

Yes, the Arabs should have dealt with it, and maybe we shouldn't have gone in at all, but now we are, might as well do it right. Doing it right does not mean trying to hold a country that doesn't want us there tho.

[Guy_Fawkes]

You cant get in and out of a war quickly. Now I dont want to sound insulting but its not like a video game, SOF are not super men. Getting soldiers in and then getting them out would be extremely difficult, as would destroying any target you could not get to with missiles or aircraft. Even if you took out every single military advantage Gaddafi has (or even killed Gaddafi) the roles each side plays may then be switched. You would have a guerrilla pro Gaddafi force w/ armed civilians attacking superiorly armed rebels, dragging this out even longer.

Right now both sides are running out of men, equipment and supplies. This could very well boil down to a stalemate, with no side being a victor and the UN in the middle standing on a DMZ. That is unless a someone fully supports the rebels and does a Afghanistan/Iraq-esk regime change.

[Guy_Fawkes]

Starting to look like people are expecting a stalemate in the fighting, some are already putting pressure on Obama for regime change.

Mullen: No-fly zone effectively in place in Libya

A U.S.-led military mission in Libya has effectively imposed a no-fly zone and blasted some of Moammar Gadhafi's ground forces outside the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said Sunday.
The coalition forces, including U.S., British and French aircraft, have taken out most of Libya's air defense systems and some airfields, Mullen said in interviews on CNN's "State of the Union" program and other networks.

In addition, Libyan ground forces in the vicinity of Benghazi were hit in an effort to prevent attacks on lesser-armed rebel fighters and civilians, said Mullen, who called the start of the mission a success.
"I would say the no-fly zone is effectively in place," Mullen told CNN, adding that the strategy now is to cut off logistical support for Gadhafi's forces that are "pretty spread out" from Tripoli to Benghazi.

Mullen also said Gadhafi's forces had shown little ability to take on the coalition firepower so far, and he made clear that the scope of the mission was limited, involving creation of the no-fly zone, stopping attacks on civilians and allowing humanitarian operations to proceed.

$1:

He acknowledged on NBC's "Meet the Press" that the military mission could be completed with Gadhafi still in power.

$1:

"I think the president 'caveated' this way too much, it's almost like it's a nuisance," Graham said. "This is a great opportunity to replace a tyrannical dictator who is not a legitimate leader, who is an international crook. And we should seize the moment and talk about replacing him, not talking about how limited we will be."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/afric ... tml?hpt=T1

[CommanderSock]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

Starting to look like people are expecting a stalemate in the fighting, some are already putting pressure on Obama for regime change.

Mullen: No-fly zone effectively in place in Libya

A U.S.-led military mission in Libya has effectively imposed a no-fly zone and blasted some of Moammar Gadhafi's ground forces outside the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said Sunday.
The coalition forces, including U.S., British and French aircraft, have taken out most of Libya's air defense systems and some airfields, Mullen said in interviews on CNN's "State of the Union" program and other networks.

In addition, Libyan ground forces in the vicinity of Benghazi were hit in an effort to prevent attacks on lesser-armed rebel fighters and civilians, said Mullen, who called the start of the mission a success.
"I would say the no-fly zone is effectively in place," Mullen told CNN, adding that the strategy now is to cut off logistical support for Gadhafi's forces that are "pretty spread out" from Tripoli to Benghazi.

Mullen also said Gadhafi's forces had shown little ability to take on the coalition firepower so far, and he made clear that the scope of the mission was limited, involving creation of the no-fly zone, stopping attacks on civilians and allowing humanitarian operations to proceed.

$1:

He acknowledged on NBC's "Meet the Press" that the military mission could be completed with Gadhafi still in power.

$1:

"I think the president 'caveated' this way too much, it's almost like it's a nuisance," Graham said. "This is a great opportunity to replace a tyrannical dictator who is not a legitimate leader, who is an international crook. And we should seize the moment and talk about replacing him, not talking about how limited we will be."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/afric ... tml?hpt=T1

Remember that's what we thought about the Taliban? Literally. They are useless, they can't cope with our superior firepower, etc etc. 11 years going, the Taliban are still whacking our guys and making record profits off opium. And Afghanistan's only border problem is with Pakistan, while Libya borders, well... Sudan, Chad, and Niger. Countries full of nice guys, even the French foreign legion gets schooled there once in a while (a month ago they botched a hostage operation).

We pat ourselves on the back with our superior firepower, only to lose the war of attrition?

Will I be wrong?

Edit: And if Gadafi doesn't get disposed of now, we've effectively lost every oil field under his control to China/India/Brazil. Most likely China.

[Guy_Fawkes]

I dont think you are wrong at all, which is why I have been saying we should not get involved. There is a rumor Gaddafi is floating another cease fire...

I know it should not be considered accurate, but its better than hearing the same report from 5 different news agencies over and over again.