[Newsbot]

Title: Canada�s dysfunctional military spending caused by brain drain and budget cuts, report finds
Category: Military
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2015-01-14 08:01:22
Canadian

[Freakinoldguy]

The system was broken long before the Conservatives took power and all they've done is perfect the ineptitude and nepotism that their predecessors initiated.

Anybody remember paying half a billion dollars for none of those EH 101 helicopters? Sweet deal that one. or how about the Ross Rifle. How many did that procurement kill.

I have absolutely no faith in the military procurement system and it doesn't matter which government is in power because they're all the same. Willing to put military members lives on the line so they can make decisions that keep the wheels of commerce moving even ever so slowly rather than supplying the military with what it needs, when it needs it.

This report may seem like a good starting point at repairing the system but, rest assured it will be relegated to the dust bin of history like all other reports on the military and military procurement were before it.

[Jabberwalker]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

The system was broken long before the Conservatives took power all they've done is perfect the ineptitude and nepotism that their predecessors started.

Anybody remember paying half a billion dollars for no helicopters? Sweet deal that one.

The system started to break in 1968 when Trudeau took power.

[Freakinoldguy]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

The system was broken long before the Conservatives took power all they've done is perfect the ineptitude and nepotism that their predecessors started.

Anybody remember paying half a billion dollars for no helicopters? Sweet deal that one.

The system started to break in 1968 when Trudeau took power.

It was broken long before Trudeau. Just look at the Royal Canadian Navy circa 1910 to 1939 and tell me the procurement system was in fine form. It was exactly the same as it is today.

No ships, no viable Navy and if it hadn't been for WWII I'm sure we'd never have gotten past that stage. It's just to bad that we've reverted right back to the pre war mentality when it comes to outfitting and supporting our troops.

[Jabberwalker]

We were a piss-poor nation between the wars. What they did do during that period that proved to be most useful during wartime was to establish Naval Reserve companies and half companies across the country. They weren't ships but they weren't expensive, either. We don't have that excuse, anymore.

[Xort]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

I have absolutely no faith in the military procurement system and it doesn't matter which government is in power because they're all the same. Willing to put military members lives on the line so they can make decisions that keep the wheels of commerce moving even ever so slowly rather than supplying the military with what it needs, when it needs it.

The interdiction of the mine resistant vehicles seemed to be acceptable, same for the armor upgrades, the 777s and a range of small items; Better night vision gear, spotting scopes, body armor, boots...

The ships and planes part sounds like in party fighting over perception of stuff.

The link said that 9,000 people were part of procurement. That seems insanely high for a military with the number of members it had at the time. Even the modern number is crazy high, 4,355 buying stuff for 68,000. Does every patrol need a government bureaucrat thinking about what new gear to buy them?

[Freakinoldguy]

Xort Xort:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

I have absolutely no faith in the military procurement system and it doesn't matter which government is in power because they're all the same. Willing to put military members lives on the line so they can make decisions that keep the wheels of commerce moving even ever so slowly rather than supplying the military with what it needs, when it needs it.

The interdiction of the mine resistant vehicles seemed to be acceptable, same for the armor upgrades, the 777s and a range of small items; Better night vision gear, spotting scopes, body armor, boots...

The ships and planes part sounds like in party fighting over perception of stuff.

The link said that 9,000 people were part of procurement. That seems insanely high for a military with the number of members it had at the time. Even the modern number is crazy high, 4,355 buying stuff for 68,000. Does every patrol need a government bureaucrat thinking about what new gear to buy them?

Over the decades it would appear that procurements has turned itself into a self regenerating bureaucratic cottage industry where getting equipment is far less important than maintaining status quo and empire.

I know numerous people who worked in procurements when they got out and not one of them could even procure a pencil without the approval of the entire bureaucratic chain of command above them. So, it looks like everyone is trying to maintain the status quo and make it look like 9000 civil servants doing the job of a hundred is actually more efficient.

The sad part is that it'll likely never change because once these bureaucrats become entrenched it's almost impossible to get them out and as long as the system is allowed to pass those jobs on like legacy pledges we'll be stuck with them forever. It'll take a politician with alot more backbone than we've seen in decades to walk in there and clean house so don't hold your breath about reform anytime soon.

[Zipperfish]

Xort Xort:

The interdiction of the mine resistant vehicles seemed to be acceptable, same for the armor upgrades, the 777s and a range of small items; Better night vision gear, spotting scopes, body armor, boots...

The ships and planes part sounds like in party fighting over perception of stuff.

The link said that 9,000 people were part of procurement. That seems insanely high for a military with the number of members it had at the time. Even the modern number is crazy high, 4,355 buying stuff for 68,000. Does every patrol need a government bureaucrat thinking about what new gear to buy them?

It said in the article that those numbers included uniformed members, so I assume that includes a good chunk of the logistics branch, maybe?

[Thanos]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Xort Xort:

The interdiction of the mine resistant vehicles seemed to be acceptable, same for the armor upgrades, the 777s and a range of small items; Better night vision gear, spotting scopes, body armor, boots...

The ships and planes part sounds like in party fighting over perception of stuff.

The link said that 9,000 people were part of procurement. That seems insanely high for a military with the number of members it had at the time. Even the modern number is crazy high, 4,355 buying stuff for 68,000. Does every patrol need a government bureaucrat thinking about what new gear to buy them?

It said in the article that those numbers included uniformed members, so I assume that includes a good chunk of the logistics branch, maybe?

AKA the REMFs. For every mechanic that keeps the vehicles running or the rattletrap planes and copters from falling out of the sky there's probably a dozen or so desk-jockeys making those tasks as difficult as possible.

[Zipperfish]

Thanos Thanos:

AKA the REMFs. For every mechanic that keeps the vehicles running or the rattletrap planes and copters from falling out of the sky there's probably a dozen or so desk-jockeys making those tasks as difficult as possible.

I volunteered for a lot of stuff in Afghanistan One of them was looking after stores for the engineers. So I filled out the forms, as required. We were out of paperclips so I put a "1" next to the paperclips line. Sure enough, when I go pick the stuff up, instead of a box of paperclips, there's a single paperclip.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Thanos Thanos:

AKA the REMFs. For every mechanic that keeps the vehicles running or the rattletrap planes and copters from falling out of the sky there's probably a dozen or so desk-jockeys making those tasks as difficult as possible.

I volunteered for a lot of stuff in Afghanistan One of them was looking after stores for the engineers. So I filled out the forms, as required. We were out of paperclips so I put a "1" next to the paperclips line. Sure enough, when I go pick the stuff up, instead of a box of paperclips, there's a single paperclip.

Were the forms held together with a second paperclip?

[Jabberwalker]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Thanos Thanos:

AKA the REMFs. For every mechanic that keeps the vehicles running or the rattletrap planes and copters from falling out of the sky there's probably a dozen or so desk-jockeys making those tasks as difficult as possible.

I volunteered for a lot of stuff in Afghanistan One of them was looking after stores for the engineers. So I filled out the forms, as required. We were out of paperclips so I put a "1" next to the paperclips line. Sure enough, when I go pick the stuff up, instead of a box of paperclips, there's a single paperclip.

Stories like that used to end up in the Reader's Digest "Humour in Uniform" section, once upon a time.