[Newsbot]

Title: Bruce Montague lost his challenge of Canada�s criminal forfeiture laws
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2014-06-04 07:31:07
Canadian

[andyt]

Half a year for altering automatic weapons. Yeah, not much of a crime there vs possessing 6 pot plants.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Half a year for altering automatic weapons. Yeah, not much of a crime there vs possessing 6 pot plants.

Arbitrary seizure of all your assets is not a fair punishment for this crime.

Yet another reason why the right to own property should be in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

[andyt]

He was convicted. A court adjudicated the seizure. That's different than where they seize property of people who have not been convicted.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

He was convicted. A court adjudicated the seizure. That's different than where they seize property of people who have not been convicted.

$1:

Separately, the province is also seeking to seize his home — a log cabin he built himself near Dryden, Ont. — on the grounds that it is the proceeds or instrument of unlawful activity, but that case has not yet been heard.

The court seized everything he used to commit the crimes he was convicted of. Then the province decided to seize his home after the conviction, as it was used to commit the crime.

That's the unfair part. Would someone's home be seized if he was convicted of impaired driving, if he started chugging cough syrup at home?

[andyt]

Many homes seized as proceeds of crime for drug dealing - reverse onus where he has to prove he didn't buy the home with proceeds of crime. Can't really speak to the merits of it in this case, often the law is misused. My original comment was about the lax original criminal sentence, you decided to take it in another direction.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Many homes seized as proceeds of crime for drug dealing - reverse onus where he has to prove he didn't buy the home with proceeds of crime. Can't really speak to the merits of it in this case, often the law is misused. My original comment was about the lax original criminal sentence, you decided to take it in another direction.

If you aren't going to read the articles, why do you comment?

He built the house himself, and was not convicted of any drug dealing.

[andyt]

I read that he only got 6 months for altering automatic weapons. I disagree with that sentence.

Proceeds of crime don't have to come from drugs. If he used money he made from his illegal firearm work to buy the land or house materials, that's all it would take. Anyway, he'll have his day in court.

[andyt]

$1:

Separately, the province is also seeking to seize his home — a log cabin he built himself near Dryden, Ont. — on the grounds that it is the proceeds or instrument of unlawful activity, but that case has not yet been heard.

Lawyers for the province speculated about marijuana cultivation in their civil forfeiture claim, based on literature found and a secret heated room.

The house even has a shooting tunnel hidden behind a cupboard, allowing the testing of firearms without being seen from outside, and a lathe the Crown believed was for making silencers.

In Tuesday’s ruling, the court said that the harsh forfeiture, which amounts to Mr. Montague’s life savings, was “proportionate to the number of weapons involved. In this case, the weapons did not get into the hands of more dangerous individuals. However, [Mr. Montague] had sawed the identifying numbers off of some of the firearms and he had made others into automatic weapons. The situation could have been much more dangerous had these weapons found their way into the hands of criminals who were prepared to use them,” the court ruled.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

I read that he only got 6 months for altering automatic weapons. I disagree with that sentence.

Proceeds of crime don't have to come from drugs. If he used money he made from his illegal firearm work to buy the land or house materials, that's all it would take. Anyway, he'll have his day in court.

The sentence is the sentence. I disagree that his whole life gets wiped out because people feel the sentence isn't harsh enough. I disagree that assets unrelated to a crime can be seized because we have no right to own the things we legally acquire.

And if you had read the article, you'd see his illegal firearm work was for personal use, not for sale. Therefore there can be no proceeds from the crime.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

$1:

Separately, the province is also seeking to seize his home — a log cabin he built himself near Dryden, Ont. — on the grounds that it is the proceeds or instrument of unlawful activity, but that case has not yet been heard.

Lawyers for the province speculated about marijuana cultivation in their civil forfeiture claim, based on literature found and a secret heated room.

The house even has a shooting tunnel hidden behind a cupboard, allowing the testing of firearms without being seen from outside, and a lathe the Crown believed was for making silencers.

In Tuesday’s ruling, the court said that the harsh forfeiture, which amounts to Mr. Montague’s life savings, was “proportionate to the number of weapons involved. In this case, the weapons did not get into the hands of more dangerous individuals. However, [Mr. Montague] had sawed the identifying numbers off of some of the firearms and he had made others into automatic weapons. The situation could have been much more dangerous had these weapons found their way into the hands of criminals who were prepared to use them,” the court ruled.

Lots of speculation, little evidence. Should a man's life be wiped out because of speculation?

[Freakinoldguy]

What's the problem? He was found guilty of a crime and lost his property which is normal in civil forfeiture cases. Although in BC, Crispies Liberals would have just confiscated all his property before any silly things like trials or convictions got in the way of the money making process.

Go BC.

[DrCaleb]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

What's the problem? He was found guilty of a crime and lost his property which is normal in civil forfeiture cases.

Illegaly modifying firearms is not such a case. Nor is selling mattresses without the tags. People who open someone elses' mail almost never have their homes seized.

But because it's gun related, it's OK?

[Freakinoldguy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

What's the problem? He was found guilty of a crime and lost his property which is normal in civil forfeiture cases.

Illegaly modifying firearms is not such a case. Nor is selling mattresses without the tags. People who open someone elses' mail almost never have their homes seized.

But because it's gun related, it's OK?

Did you even read the article?

$1:

Bruce Montague, 55, has already served more than half a year in jail, after a jury convicted him on 26 firearms charges, including removing serial numbers, lacking a licence, and altering automatic weapons.

I'm extremely pro gun but even I can figure out that filing the serial numbers off guns and altering automatic weapons isn't equivalent to removing the "inspected by" tag from your mattress. It also indicates that your poster boy's clients are likely not what you'd call responsible gun owners.

$1:

200 items including dynamite, submachine guns, sawn off shotguns, assault rifles with over capacity magazine, silencers, night vision goggles and bullet proof vests — should become the property of Ontario.

So as much as I hate the forfeiture laws when used without due process, in this case the system would appear to have gotten it right. Mr. Montague is an admitted criminal who paid the price for his digressions with his possessions and if he really wanted to prevent the disarming of the "people" he should have picked a better method than breaking every gun law in Canada to get his point across.

It's people like him that give, pardon the pun, ammunition to the anti gun crowd and make it harder for responsible gun owners to keep their weapons.

[andyt]

Good for you FOG. I know how outraged you are about BC's egregious actions in some forfeiture cases, and I know you're not an anti-gun nut like me either, but good for seeing that this is not some innocent guy who deserves any sympathy whatsoever. I don't know if he actually sold any of the weapons me modified, but even if he didn't, having an arsenal like that in your "cabin" is an invitation for some very bad people who might want it and aren't afraid to do what it takes to get it. There's just no excuse for what this guy did, vs a guy forgetting to license a gun.