[Newsbot]

Title: Billion-dollar boondoggle
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2016-06-12 12:35:50
Canadian

[OnTheIce]

But it's the Toronto Sun so it can't be entirely true. Ontario really doesn't care, this will just get swept under the rug like everything else!

[BeaverFever]

Well for starters, it's yet another opinion article posted in the news section. Why do you guys have such a problem distinguishing between the two?

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Well for starters, it's yet another opinion article posted in the news section. Why do you guys have such a problem distinguishing between the two?

I watch what you guys do, then I assume that's the way it's done. Why? Is that wrong? I thought you wanted to be emulated. You're always screaming when we don't.

Or wait a minute...is it not opinion when the CBC does it? Oh pardon me. My mistake. When the CBC does it, it's "analysis" not opinion, right? Even though it's the exact same thing with a different title and posted as news all the time, almost every day.

Maybe I should double-check and make sure Neil MacDonald at CBC didn't have one of his feelings about this one first, I guess.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Well for starters, it's yet another opinion article posted in the news section. Why do you guys have such a problem distinguishing between the two?

Why not address the article?

It may be an opinion piece, but does it make the facts within cease to exist?

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

But it's the Toronto Sun so it can't be entirely true. Ontario really doesn't care, this will just get swept under the rug like everything else!

First of all, like everything else at the Sun, it uses not-so-clever misdirection. It starts with a flawed premise, then quickly frog-marches the reader past the premise to it's conclusions, a page-long rant against Liberals.

Here's the premise of the artcile:

$1:

If, as they say, the cost of their cap-and-trade scheme to the average Ontario household is only $156 per year, where are they going to get the additional $1.14 billion a year they say it will raise for the government?

he calculation is simple. Given that there are about 4.9 million households in Ontario, according to the last census, $156 per household raises $760 million for the government.

But Wynne and Murray say carbon pricing will bring about $1.9 billion annually into Liberal government coffers, beginning next year.

So how are they going to raise the extra $1.14 billion annually they need to bring the total government take to $1.9 billion?

The author of this article must not understand anything about cap-and-trade programs generally, or the Ontario program specifically.

Cap and Trade programs generate public revenue primarily by auctioning off emissions permits to GHG emitters.

$156 per household year is the net amount that the government expects GHG emitters will pass on to consumers, it is not the program source revenue.

There, mystery solved.

[N_Fiddledog]

In any case, although it's a column, this one is posted at the Sun under the category of news, just as that "Fuck white people" one on the Brock Turner case was from the CBC on the weekend. Bitch at Andy before you come to me Beave. Then I'll take you seriously.

Oh wait, I see your problem. You didn't actually read the whole article here.

Go back and check out this part:

$1:

But cap-and-trade doesn’t just apply to gasoline and natural gas.

It covers any sector of the economy where there are major emitters using fossil fuels to create energy, meaning virtually all sectors, from manufacturing to transportation to agriculture.

This means the cost of most goods and services is going to rise under cap-and-trade as these sectors buy carbon credits auctioned by the Wynne government, then pass along their increased costs to consumers in the form of higher retail prices.

Maybe you'll figure it out. Maybe not, but really who cares?

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The author of this article must not understand anything about cap-and-trade programs generally, or the Ontario program specifically.

Cap and Trade programs generate public revenue primarily by auctioning off emissions permits to GHG emitters.

$156 per household year is the net amount that the government expects GHG emitters will pass on to consumers, it is not the program source revenue.

There, mystery solved.

The author of this article could teach you a thing or two about cap-and-trade.

You and the OLP have problems with basic math. When it's laid out in very simple terms, we're continually told, "No, you're wrong".

The OLP has done this to the Auditor General twice already this year. "Thanks for your report, but you're wrong".

You fail to acknowledge that cap-and-trade doesn’t just apply to gasoline and natural gas which is all that's included in the $156 figure.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

You fail to acknowledge that cap-and-trade doesn’t just apply to gasoline and natural gas which is all that's included in the $156 figure.

That question his different from the OP's main question:

$1:

But Wynne and Murray say carbon pricing will bring about $1.9 billion annually into Liberal government coffers, beginning next year.

So how are they going to raise the extra $1.14 billion annually they need to bring the total government take to $1.9 billion?

...Which I've explained above.

Now, on the comment Cap and Trade will cause inflation in other sectors and that the household will have more than $13 a month in cost increases well that's a different point from the above and perhaps one not best described as "billion dollar boondoggle" because now you're questioning the cost of the program, not the effectiveness of it. I'll admit, the author does throw those points in at the bottom as kind of a non-sequitur and at that point the article has kind of turned into a dog's breakfast of criticisms he's trying to hurl as it doesn't tie into the top part.

But I don't know what the estimated impact on other prices would be. I see the Ontario Federation of Agriculture expects to be a net beneficiary, but I imagine some businesses will be able to pass their energy bill increase onto the end consumer, I'm just not sure if it's quantifiable or significant yet.

[Alta_redneck]

Just for the record the Sun newspaper chain is now owned by the left wing Post Media, just saying.

[bootlegga]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Just for the record the Sun newspaper chain is now owned by the left wing Post Media, just saying.

Yeah, that's why the those horrible left wingers endorsed notable communist Stephen Harper and his party in last year's election...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper ... tion,_2015

$1:

When you look at the Conservatives’ record, it is clear that the problem is not with their actual agenda, but with the manner in which they have chosen to go about implementing it. Strip away the hard partisanship and chip-on-the-shoulder populism, what remains is a government that has presided over a prosperous and united Canada in the face of powerful countervailing forces. For this alone, Stephen Harper and the Conservatives deserve to be returned to power on October 19.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/column ... s-to-power

[BeaverFever]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Just for the record the Sun newspaper chain is now owned by the left wing Post Media, just saying.

Post Media - as in the National Post - is left wing??? Since when????