[Newsbot]

Title: Anthrax Outbreak In Russia Thought To Be Result Of Thawing Permafrost : Goats and Soda : NPR
Category: World
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2016-08-04 06:49:37

[N_Fiddledog]

"Officials don't know exactly how the outbreak started, but the current hypothesis is almost unbelievable: A heat wave has thawed the frozen soil there and with it, a reindeer carcass infected with anthrax decades ago."

but...

"In the early 20th century, there were repeated anthrax outbreaks in Siberia. More than a million reindeer died. Now there are about 7,000 burial grounds with infected carcasses scattered across northern Russia."

So...

If their hypothesis is correct what caused the first outbreak?

[DrCaleb]

Anthrax is a bacteria found in soil. Disturbing the soil can make it airborn and cause infections.

[N_Fiddledog]

I see. Now explain why the soil can only be disturbed one way at the turn of the century but today it has to be global warming.

[N_Fiddledog]

Unless you're saying it was warming both times in which case what's supposed to be so special about modern warming?

[MeganC]

< crickets >

[DrCaleb]

MeganC MeganC:

< crickets >

Fiddledog knows I don't respond to strawmen nor do I defend arguments he makes up and attributes to me.

If he wants to ignore the rotting Anthrax infested deer carcass as a probable source of Anthrax, that's his error.

[stratos]

Okay My thought is shouldn't we have been seeing this recurring over and over in the area. Permafrost warms up periodically (not going one way or the other on global warming with this). So shouldn't there be some sort of records or area knowledge about this happening when ever the permafrost "melts"?

[DrCaleb]

stratos stratos:

Okay My thought is shouldn't we have been seeing this recurring over and over in the area. Permafrost warms up periodically (not going one way or the other on global warming with this). So shouldn't there be some sort of records or area knowledge about this happening when ever the permafrost "melts"?

Records are hard to keep in a society without a written language. I've not heard nor read of any oral records from the Innu about past permafrost melts. The geologic record however is very revealing.

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/essay_romanovsky.html#table1

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

MeganC MeganC:

< crickets >

Fiddledog knows I don't respond to strawmen nor do I defend arguments he makes up and attributes to me.

If he wants to ignore the rotting Anthrax infested deer carcass as a probable source of Anthrax, that's his error.

Just once I would like to see you use a term correctly.

The insinuation within the article is clear. They are suggesting the Chicken Little bugaboo of proposed human-caused global warming is or could be (same thing in warmist minds) causing an animal health crisis of anthrax.

That insinuation is core to the article. It's central. It's not that interesting without it. It's the reason you posted it. Let's not pretend we don't know that. Let's not be ignoring the obvious again.

So challenging that proposal on the grounds it doesn't make sense is not a straw man. It's a legitimate query of the central point.

However if you would like to say the suggestion of CAGW as cause is not a point here because it wouldn't make sense if it was I'm fine with that.

[N_Fiddledog]

And btw, where does it say that "rotting Anthrax infested deer carcass" they think might be responsible for this outbreak is more than hypothetical?

$1:

Officials don't know exactly how the outbreak started, but the current hypothesis is almost unbelievable: A heat wave has thawed the frozen soil there and with it, a reindeer carcass infected with anthrax decades ago.

Some scientists think this incident could be an example of what climate change may increasingly surface in the tundra.

The bit after that where the guy talks about how it might have taken place, he isn't talking about a specific identified animal. If he is, show me some evidence of it.

And even if he was it still wouldn't challenge my argument against proposed human-caused global warming being responsible for this.

[andyt]

Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/ ... ly-melting

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Just once I would like to see you use a term correctly.

Because you don't understand the definition doesn't mean I'm using it incorrectly.

Your first post is a strawman, because it implies that I must meet your nonsensical criteria or AGW is then disproven. Definition of a 'strawman'. Your second post is an argument that I didn't make, attributed to me.

As in the past, I have no need nor desire to entertain or refute your fallacies.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

The insinuation within the article is clear. They are suggesting the Chicken Little bugaboo of proposed human-caused global warming is or could be (same thing in warmist minds) causing an animal health crisis of anthrax.

Ahh! There it is (ignoring the ad hominens)! The argument is in the article! So why not disprove the article, instead of assigning arguments to me that I don't make?

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

That insinuation is core to the article. It's central. It's not that interesting without it. It's the reason you posted it. Let's not pretend we don't know that. Let's not be ignoring the obvious again.

Let's not go attributing more of your biases to me than are evident. I posted this for the same reason I post anything; because I think it's worth knowing and might generate discussion.

Of course warming is central to the article. That's another reason I posted it; it's yet another nail in the very well nailed coffin of the deniers.

$1:

For example, researchers have found pieces of the 1918 Spanish flu virus in corpses buried in mass graves in Alaska's tundra. There's also likely smallpox and the bubonic plague buried in Siberia.

Saying "it's not happening", when there is actual evidence of it happening is just a denier trait.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So challenging that proposal on the grounds it doesn't make sense is not a straw man. It's a legitimate query of the central point.

So, where is your evidence? Oh, that's right, you refute science with feelings. You think that calling me out on arguments I don't make somehow scores you 'win points', and wins the hearts and minds of those who already ignore the evidence to the contrary. Sorry, this isn't a points race, it's one for the future survival of our species.

Their hypothesis is that anthrax infested carcasses are now spreading anthrax. And it's not the first case like it. They document several such events. So you can pretend like it's not happening, or you can show us why the cause of the anthrax outbreak isn't what they claim it is.

Which path will you choose?

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

However if you would like to say the suggestion of CAGW as cause is not a point here because it wouldn't make sense if it was I'm fine with that.

More of your cognitively biased nonsense. I've given plenty of evidence over the years to back myself up. I have no intention of rehashing all of that if you refused to believe it the first or second or third or fourth . . . time.

[Delwin]

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