[Newsbot]

Title: Ahead of Paris climate talks, Canadians say they're willing to pay to reduce emissions
Category: Environmental
Posted By: andyt
Date: 2015-11-24 08:07:49
Canadian

[Alta_redneck]

What a pile of bullshit, 85% of Albertans are against what the Nothead is doing, but that was a Sun Poll so I guess i won't even waste time posting it, cause well, we all know what the Sun is.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

What a pile of bullshit, 85% of Albertans are against what the Nothead is doing, but that was a Sun Poll so I guess i won't even waste time posting it, cause well, we all know what the Sun is.

Well, according to the Sun, 60% of Albertans approve of what she's doing.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/07/08/ne ... vince-wide

Unless you read 'The Rebel' of course. In which case, Alberta is gone and replaced with a Socialism induced black hole.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Well, according to the Sun, 60% of Albertans approve of what she's doing.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/07/08/ne ... vince-wide

Hmmm, you think nothing has changed since July ?



Have to copy/paste this somewhere...


Being from Alberta, you are well aware of the coal industry in your province being one of the major producers of the stuff. Whenever someone talks to me about how badly we are polluting our country I like to make them aware that we are but a tiny part of the entire world problem and present them with the stats which are quite mind blowing.

Total world consumption of coal in 2012 was 8,439,854,000 tonnes. That’s billlions. A one mile long train represents 10,000 tonnes. Total consumption then represents a continuous train stretching 843,985 miles. A distance that is 3.5 times the distance from the earth to the moon.(average distance is 239,000 miles) And that is annually. Canada consumes about 60,000,000 tonnes or 1/140th. of the total but still a lot of coal considering it represents a continuous trainload stretching 6000 miles or roughly the distance from coast to coast. Each year. See chart below.

http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?product=coal



We are not the problem. We are also not the solution.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Well, according to the Sun, 60% of Albertans approve of what she's doing.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/07/08/ne ... vince-wide

Hmmm, you think nothing has changed since July ?

That was the only Sun poll Google found. And if things had changed, they'd reflect Redneck's assertion.

martin14 martin14:

Have to copy/paste this somewhere...

Being from Alberta, you are well aware of the coal industry in your province being one of the major producers of the stuff. Whenever someone talks to me about how badly we are polluting our country I like to make them aware that we are but a tiny part of the entire world problem and present them with the stats which are quite mind blowing.

Total world consumption of coal in 2012 was 8,439,854,000 tonnes. That’s billlions. A one mile long train represents 10,000 tonnes. Total consumption then represents a continuous train stretching 843,985 miles. A distance that is 3.5 times the distance from the earth to the moon.(average distance is 239,000 miles) And that is annually. Canada consumes about 60,000,000 tonnes or 1/140th. of the total but still a lot of coal considering it represents a continuous trainload stretching 6000 miles or roughly the distance from coast to coast. Each year. See chart below.

http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?product=coal

We are not the problem. We are also not the solution.

We are part of the problem, and we are part of the solution.

As Ghandi said “Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.”

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We are part of the problem, and we are part of the solution.

We are a very, very small part of the problem and nothing we do will make a difference with respect to the big picture.

Anything we do is done for two reasons and two reasons only:

1. Symbolic - Let's do something so we feel better about ourselves even if it has no effect at all.

2. Income for the government.

So if we're all OK with spending more just to feel better about "doing our part" and filling government coffers, so be it.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

We are part of the problem, and we are part of the solution.

We are a very, very small part of the problem and nothing we do will make a difference with respect to the big picture.

Anything we do is done for two reasons and two reasons only:

1. Symbolic - Let's do something so we feel better about ourselves even if it has no effect at all.

2. Income for the government.

So if we're all OK with spending more just to feel better about "doing our part" and filling government coffers, so be it.

No one else is polluting our environment but us. We are a very large part of that. No one else is pumping billions of liters of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence seaway. No one else is releasing radioactive carbon-14 into the air. No one else is strip mining Saskatchewan Potash only to watch it be carried off the fields and in to the rivers by rain, only to destroy the wetlands that moderate river flows during flood seasons. No one else is watching our forests be ravaged by beetles and then fires.

It's about so much more than CO2, but CO2 is the starting point.

[andyt]

If we're not the problem, I guess we're spatial relative to everybody else. A in spatial class.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No one else is polluting our environment but us. We are a very large part of that. No one else is pumping billions of liters of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence seaway. No one else is releasing radioactive carbon-14 into the air. No one else is strip mining Saskatchewan Potash only to watch it be carried off the fields and in to the rivers by rain, only to destroy the wetlands that moderate river flows during flood seasons. No one else is watching our forests be ravaged by beetles and then fires.

It's about so much more than CO2, but CO2 is the starting point.

Climate and weather is big picture.

What Canada does, on a Global level, is irrelevant. We're such a minor player, our entire Country could be wiped out and there would be no effect on 'climate change' around the Globe.

To suggest that we, as Canadians can 'fix' climate when we can barely manage a capital project on budget and on time is just laughable.

Paying 2 Billion extra into the government coffers as per the plan in Ontario does nothing but pad the balance sheet of the government and give people a false feeling that they did something effective. It's symbolic and expensive.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No one else is polluting our environment but us. We are a very large part of that. No one else is pumping billions of liters of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence seaway. No one else is releasing radioactive carbon-14 into the air. No one else is strip mining Saskatchewan Potash only to watch it be carried off the fields and in to the rivers by rain, only to destroy the wetlands that moderate river flows during flood seasons. No one else is watching our forests be ravaged by beetles and then fires.

It's about so much more than CO2, but CO2 is the starting point.

Climate and weather is big picture.

What Canada does, on a Global level, is irrelevant. We're such a minor player, our entire Country could be wiped out and there would be no effect on 'climate change' around the Globe.

To suggest that we, as Canadians can 'fix' climate when we can barely manage a capital project on budget and on time is just laughable.

Paying 2 Billion extra into the government coffers as per the plan in Ontario does nothing but pad the balance sheet of the government and give people a false feeling that they did something effective. It's symbolic and expensive.

Saying that our contribution to climate change is irrelevant is a cop-out. Just because my neighbour doesn't mow his lawn is no reason for me not to. We can't remove ourselves from the environment no matter how hard we wish to, so we can clean it up or leave it for future generations. But it needs to be fixed, or it'll fix itself despite us.

If your provincial government is using it as just another revenue source, take it up with them. Many other places see carbon taxes as a tool to improve their economy, citizen's health and environment at the same time.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -fuel-free

[martin14]

[N_Fiddledog]

Allowing ourselves to be distracted by the scam of thinking we can move the climate thermometer and stave off an imagined Warmegeddon by controlling the gas we exhale diverts our attention from reality based problems like real pollution.

[Lemmy]

The fact that the cartoon is accurate isn't a reason for non-action in Canada. It's an opportunity for us to develop the clean technologies and export them to China and other polluters. Going clean first means we sell the fruits of that effort and laugh all the way to the bank about it. It's hilarious that supposedly business-minded folks can't see a business opportunity when it's right in front of them.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

The fact that the cartoon is accurate isn't a reason for non-action in Canada. It's an opportunity for us to develop the clean technologies and export them to China and other polluters. Going clean first means we sell the fruits of that effort and laugh all the way to the bank about it. It's hilarious that supposedly business-minded folks can't see a business opportunity when it's right in front of them.

Plus, doing nothing will hurt us more than the cost of doing something.

$1:

Notley sagely followed the LBJ maxim and brought the oil patch into the tent.

First, she appointed Andrew Leach a widely-respected professor of energy policy at the University of Alberta to chair her advisory panel. And she ensured that energy interests were strongly represented, with panellists from Suncor and Enbridge.

The Premier's frank advice to her constituents was that if they did not take decisive action on climate change, they would be sideswiped by the actions of others.

The oil sands have battered the global reputation of both Alberta and Canada. I got a sense of the level of hostility while covering a debate at the European Parliament in Brussels in 2013, where they talking about a measure that would have tarred oil sands crude as dirtier than other sources.

The initiative never passed. But as a Canadian, and a graduate of the University of Alberta, it was an eye-opener. The World's Most Polite Nation™ was being painted as a climate villain, the black hat threatening to sink Tuvalu for the sake of making billions from bitumen.

Alberta is in desperate need of an international image makeover.

Increasingly the business community worldwide is seeing carbon-based industries as bad investments. No less a figure than Bank of England Governor Mark Carney is warning of the risks.

Business leaders in the Alberta can read the financial press as well as the rest of us and now seem to be buying Rachel Notley's view that they better try to be part of the solution.

The Calgary-based power company TransAlta and its CEO Dawn Farrell presciently announced that it would phase out coal-fired generation by about 2030 and were rewarded with a big jump in share price when the Premier's plan called for the same measure province wide.

When Notley rolled out her climate program the rookie Premier and her team staged a masterwork of political imagery. Standing with her were not only environmentalists and a First Nation leader in traditional garb, but leaders in the petroleum industry.

Reporters covering the event must have wondered if they were hallucinating when they saw both Suncor and Greenpeace praising the same plan.

It was a home run in political communications, or in energy terms maybe we should say a gusher -- paving the way for a triumphant arrival for Notley at the First Minister's conference on climate change.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sean-malle ... 49806.html

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

The fact that the cartoon is accurate isn't a reason for non-action in Canada. It's an opportunity for us to develop the clean technologies and export them to China and other polluters. Going clean first means we sell the fruits of that effort and laugh all the way to the bank about it. It's hilarious that supposedly business-minded folks can't see a business opportunity when it's right in front of them.

China is way ahead of us in clean technologies and we'll likely be importing from them. Just because they burn a lot of coal, doesn't mean a nation of that many people isn't also using a lot of clean technology - they just have a long way to go. Like Alberta.