[Zipperfish]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You're right that there are 2 competing ideologies battling for ascendancy right now, but where you're wrong is that you think it's a battle of existence between Islam and the West. In relaity it's a battle WITHIN Islam between radicals and moderates. The people who are being massacred by Islamists are almost all Muslims and almost all the violence is happening in muslim countries in battles fought over territory in said countyr. That's where the "war" is.

ISIS is much less interested in the outside than world than Al Qaeda was. They're more interested in killing fellow muslims in their homeland and setting up their supposed Caliphate utopia than they are interested in fighting in the west. Not only that, but they're highly factionalized and have no central leadership and often fight among themselves.In fact, if there's any silver lining, it's that this conflict may be drawing Islamists OUT of Canada to go fight and die in some foreign meat-grinder and never come back.

As far as the West is concerned, we're really on the sidelines of this conflict. It's not like islamists are going to storm North American beaches while Islmaist stealth bombers pound our cities, overwhelm our military and reduce our buildings to rubble. The most they can do is annoy us by picking off a handfull of our citizens every once in a while as targets of opportunity, on our home soil its done mostly by self-styled home-grown wannabe ammateurs, not agents of some terrorist commander overseas. Terrorist attacks are cause for public outrage and they demand swift and harsh punnishment. But they are not an existential threat by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not scared.

Good points. And yeah, I can't figure out while we are pulling people's passports. All the extremists are self-identifying and taking off to Syria. Where's the downside? If we hadn't have pulled this idiot's passport he would probably would have been killed months ago.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's not like islamists are going to storm North American beaches while Islmaist stealth bombers pound our cities, overwhelm our military and reduce our buildings to rubble.

Nope, we invited them in. They kill us and our leaders call it 'workplace violence' instead of the acts of war that they are.

Give it time and I fully anticipate a moslem member of our PC military to do something horrific with the weapons they have access to.

[Jabberwalker]

I sure hope that they scoop up the contents of the Mosque that turned this little prick into a Muslim first, then a radical later. There can't be much doubt that someone around his mosque had something to do with turning him into a cowardly killer. Where the hell else does he learn that shit in rural Quebec?

Maybe he did it to get some virgins.

None of those around St.Jean.

[andyt]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

If we drop out Marquess of Queensberry rules, we become a lesser country.

There are differing laws for times of peace and times of war. The fact that we can return to a peaceful society with different rules after a time of conflict, is what makes us a superior nation. Canadian troops admit that they shot surrendering German soldiers, rather than take them prisoner because of expediency. Are we any worse off because of that? No. Make no mistake, just as the Second World War was about two competing ideologies, so too is the battle we are engaged in with the radical Islamists. It's an us or them situation and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty or you end up the loser. They are unable to comprehend a live and let live way of life. Only a fool.....never mind....would believe otherwise.

The trouble with naive idealists as opposed to hard nosed realists is that we unfortunately don';t live in an ideal world, we live in the real world.

So what does that look like? Shoot Muslims in Canada because some of them might be radicalized? Is that sufficiently expedient? Declare the War Measures act, lock zem all in ze concentration camps. (That's going to cost us later). Just what does getting your hands dirty look like in Canada?

Lots of big talk about getting tough with Canadian Muslims, but no concrete suggestions as to what that means, besides hanging the ones that commit terror in public and smearing them with pig fat (which is just stupid). I suggested having monitors in mosques, but Bart, tough guy, doesn't want that when he realizes is might apply to churches too. Just how are we going to go to war with Canada's Muslims?

[Jabberwalker]

Declare the War Measures act, lock zem all in ze concentration camps.

That is in fact, exactly what will happen if the Muslim population becomes sufficiently threatening to us, if history is any guide.

[andyt]

Yep. And then years later well have an apology and recompense, because it will turn out that most Muslims were no more interested in harming us than the Japanese or Ukrainians were.

[Jabberwalker]

andyt andyt:

Yep. And then years later well have an apology and recompense, because it will turn out that most Muslims were no more interested in harming us than the Japanese or Ukrainians were.

I don't remember an apology to all of the German Canadians that were interned ... nor, I suppose, the Italian ones, either.

... or, believe it or not, the German Jews who were interned in North America.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/21/nyreg ... -camp.html

[andyt]

CSIS has admitted that it doesn't have the budget to watch everybody all the time. Maybe that would be an area where something concrete could actually be done.

Police spoke with him many times, also his family and his Imam. Seems to me that Imam needs a push to counteract the radicalization, quit with the bullshit.

the guy had a young son. Imagine growing up knowing this about your father.

[BeaverFever]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

turned this little prick into a Muslim first, then a radical later.

Apparently the radical Facebook posts etc started to appear about a month after he converted to Islam last year. Sounds like he decided to become a Muslim and a radical at the same time.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

If we drop out Marquess of Queensberry rules, we become a lesser country.

There are differing laws for times of peace and times of war. The fact that we can return to a peaceful society with different rules after a time of conflict, is what makes us a superior nation. Canadian troops admit that they shot surrendering German soldiers, rather than take them prisoner because of expediency. Are we any worse off because of that? No.

Standard SOP for the paras at the time.
But there were SS troops who were shot upon surrendering and it wasn't for the sake of expediency. If a badly outnumbered SS unit waited until they fired their last round before surrendering their chances of surviving the surrender weren't very high. If they waited until they fired their last round before surrendering AND had killed or wounded a Canadian soldier(or more) in the meantime, their chances of surviving the surrender were pretty much zero.
Mind you that wasn't official SOP nor did every Canadian unit or soldier operate by that unwritten code when dealing with SS troops. It was simply a visceral reaction by some to the murders at the Ardenne Abbey.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

turned this little prick into a Muslim first, then a radical later.

Apparently the radical Facebook posts etc started to appear about a month after he converted to Islam last year. Sounds like he decided to become a Muslim and a radical at the same time.

And the RCMP gave him a finger wagging around 10 days ago. Glad that worked.

Alas, there may be nothing the RCMP can do unless a crime is committed, but there was a crime committed. He tried to leave Canada to participate in the war in Syria. That is a crime. And for some reason, they just kept his passport, instead of his lily white ass in jail.

And Andy, there is something people can do instead of your suggestion that they be shot or hung; all the people that noticed his radicalization could do something besides sit around and watch it happen. Intervention, perhaps.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Andy, there is something people can do instead of your suggestion that they be shot or hung; all the people that noticed his radicalization could do something besides sit around and watch it happen. Intervention, perhaps.

You can't legislate against stupidity.


Intervention, you mean special deprogramming camps ?

Oh boy, can't wait for that.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Andy, there is something people can do instead of your suggestion that they be shot or hung; all the people that noticed his radicalization could do something besides sit around and watch it happen. Intervention, perhaps.

You can't legislate against stupidity.


Intervention, you mean special deprogramming camps ?

Oh boy, can't wait for that.

I mean his dad (friends, family, anyone who noticed his radicalization) sitting him down and talking with him and slapping him upside the head until his thinking was straight again.

[martin14]

His dad was the one who called the RCMP and is what led to his passport being seized.

Seriously, my dad was a great guy, but there were times where I wouldn't listen.
Everyone has that.



Now we have 3 little terrorist baby makers running around Toronto, got picked
up and sent home after trying to get to Syria, not charged with anything.

It's our own stupidity as well.

Let them go, close the door, they don't come back.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Andy, there is something people can do instead of your suggestion that they be shot or hung; all the people that noticed his radicalization could do something besides sit around and watch it happen. Intervention, perhaps.

I agree. Probably the most effective. The police did talk with his family and Imam tho, and that didn't seem to help. This I why I'm so on about not alienating all Canadian Muslims by spreading he hate. These are the people who need to get in somebody like this' face. And I do think Canada needs to get in the face of the Muslim community that they urgently need to do this, because things can get very bad for them otherwise, as we get more events like this. It's in their own self-interest to be much more active in confronting radicalization. It's in our own best interest to make Muslims allies in that, instead of just spreading the hate.