[Zipperfish]

This is the human animal on display, from my point of view. For all our pretensions of civility and morality--and intelligence--as a group our behaviour is not really very differentiable from a pack of outraged baboons. And like a pack of baboons, the most effective method of control is aversion. Punishment.

FInding the ringleaders and hanging them from lamposts is effective. But it's actually more effective to try to catch them all and make the punishment less severe. People base their behaviour on their chance of getting caught, more than the severity of getting caught, studies show.

We all here like to think that we would behave differently. Not just these drunken riots, but other examples, like poor Brianna somebody-or-other who was viciously snatched, raped and murdered close to her home in Coquitlam. She screamed the whole time, and all the neighbours heard. Nobody did anything. Or what about, if you were Geramn circa 1940, and the Gestapo came for your neighbours? Would you really have stood up to the Nazis or hidden Jews in your home?

Must be in a bad mood tonight. Actually, that's not it. I think it's my biggest personal fear that I would see some injustice take place before me and act just like all the others--do nothing, or join in.

[andyt]

Yep, chance of getting caught is the best deterrent. And public shaming, but only once somebody has been convicted. Make them wear special uniforms while they perform clean up work or such - much better than locking them up with real criminals and learning the tricks of the trade.

That question about whether to do something or not about an injustice - we've all faced that since school days. We didn't always jump in to help somebody being bullied. I'm ashamed to say that a couple of boys I bullied myself, along with everybody else including the teachers. One of them I tried to befriend, but he was just so fucking difficult I gave up. The other turned out to be a pedophile - always wondered if the bullying contributed to it or if we always somehow know subconsciously. Other times, I'm glad to say, I spoke up.

The Brianna deal I don't blame the neighbors. It was a teen hangout, and there was screaming there all the time - you know how teenage girls are, and we guys just love it. But Kitty what's her name in New York - there's where the idea of diminished responsibility came from.

I think I would have been a "good German" Just too much indoctrination and pressure. I don't think most Germans were hiding their true feelings and just following orders out of fear. I think they really believed the propaganda. Hitler turned a defeated nation around to have power again. Jews have been reviled throughout Europe for centuries. This came together in Germany and people went along because they believed it. But present day Germans don't - and people who try to say there's something special about the "German character" that allowed this to happen are being racist themselves. And I think that's an important lesson for all of us - "It can't happen here" is just kidding ourselves.

[herbie]

Young, dumb and fulla cum.
Sigh
Middle age sux. Older and wiser just isn't all that exciting....

[andyt]

It gets better, Herbie. Happiness actually goes up again as you get older.

[Canadiana55]

Agreed.

[Lemmy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well, sociologists aren't exactly intellectual giants either.

Sociology is the easiest subject taught at university. Stupid people major in sociology with the hope that they'll be able to get a high enough academic average to gain admittance into law school or teachers' college. Those that can't even get high enough marks in sociology classes to get into law school have to re-set their career goals and settle for becoming sociology professors.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Had a buddy majoring in Math and Sociology. I told him he could easily get a job counting people as a door person at the Windsor casino

[Unsound]

andyt andyt:

Yep, chance of getting caught is the best deterrent. And public shaming, but only once somebody has been convicted. Make them wear special uniforms while they perform clean up work or such - much better than locking them up with real criminals and learning the tricks of the trade.

That question about whether to do something or not about an injustice - we've all faced that since school days. We didn't always jump in to help somebody being bullied. I'm ashamed to say that a couple of boys I bullied myself, along with everybody else including the teachers. One of them I tried to befriend, but he was just so fucking difficult I gave up. The other turned out to be a pedophile - always wondered if the bullying contributed to it or if we always somehow know subconsciously. Other times, I'm glad to say, I spoke up.

The Brianna deal I don't blame the neighbors. It was a teen hangout, and there was screaming there all the time - you know how teenage girls are, and we guys just love it. But Kitty what's her name in New York - there's where the idea of diminished responsibility came from.

I think I would have been a "good German" Just too much indoctrination and pressure. I don't think most Germans were hiding their true feelings and just following orders out of fear. I think they really believed the propaganda. Hitler turned a defeated nation around to have power again. Jews have been reviled throughout Europe for centuries. This came together in Germany and people went along because they believed it. But present day Germans don't - and people who try to say there's something special about the "German character" that allowed this to happen are being racist themselves. And I think that's an important lesson for all of us - "It can't happen here" is just kidding ourselves.

Love the honest self-assesment
+1 if I could.

[Freakinoldguy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

First of all, peoples' IQs don't really change until they get quite old, when they drop. You are actually smarter from about 10 to the end of your reproductive usefulness, at which point you start to get dumber.

But, to the chagrin of today's youth much wiser.

[Lemmy]

+ 1

I may be dumber now than I was than I was 10, but I'm sure I could kick that kid's ass.